Is the USA gradually moving to a majority of citizens being non-religious

by Reasonfirst 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Riley

  I was raised as a JW, walked out after my teens. I got involved with an evangelical church in my 30s. I still enjoyed the bible and trying to be a good person. I also did keep a health dose of skepticism in me. I thought I was damaged because I was raised in a cult and I could never fully accept anything.

  Then covid hit and I really had the whole thing backwards in my mind. I soon realized the same people who were telling a 14 year old girl 6 weeks pregnant that she was a murder for having an abortion were the same people who didn't give two shits if they flooded the hospitals and if you just happened to miss your cancer biopsy because of it, that is on you. Then everyone become an infectious disease expert or a climate change expert or an expert on the situation in Ukraine, electric car turn people gay.

  I have an 8 year old son who has had the police called twice to his school. Once when a guy walked on to the playground with a candy wanting to talk to the children about the dangers of vaccines and once when two ladies walked on to the playground telling the kids the teachers were dangerous and woke.

  I am so sick of this shit.

  I have no problem with the death of religion. Let it die.
  
• 

  Balaamsass2

  I have had this discussion with an old attorney friend from work. He studied to be a Catholic Priest for a while...but liked women too much. :) He identifies as Catholic but rarely attends church. Calls himself "Spiritual but not religious".

  3#rd Gen and I moved to rural northern California 25 years ago from the San Francisco Bay Area. We have a LOT of former Assembly of God Pentecostals who have moved into our town. They (Bethel church) now comprise about 15% of the population. They have added some Hippie- Hindu practices (Kundalini tantric sex), "Prosperity gospel", NAR beliefs and rock music to their religion and seem to be growing. Combined with speaking in tongues, faith healing, and far-right political bent they are very different. They believe god will protect them from illness, yet have a militia.

  I read that most Americans are becoming less religious.."Spiritual"....but not religious.

  New York Times : America Is Losing Religious Faith

  https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/23/opinion/christianity-america-religion-secular.html?unlocked_article_code=Zlln1UZwlrnDMRn1EaWo96lnIud540AEeVEQg9Ds5b06R9Tr748cwh3TX0dVzqDUYzbTu6NZUppqFhjHHXFXw2jK7TFNPZgqABh1XWIY621ZgcaAcsVvIZjkF6ns2Ww6tiIGyzkCx1w_PJCIjigySMgHEMT0fuLXlxm4pUbk9GEnrjXSuYzlErlHSGcmsCDcT1zp1zPsvU7oc0WdNkWp3ArkTC9oec8APuBGA8F2qGd-eTyqtQ74EAM3BH4ZooIP9MB-PFe7g2GDMqVLhddBrtMWPden3DcnmBGWZBy87BcMytUnsNEeEVrQ0n2SFwWmjlqu094k_ByCTnjNgKMZLFnIyhz5zhhdrtibASAbXg&smid=url-s
• 

  Reasonfirst

  Balaamass2, quote:

  "They have added some Hippie- Hindu practices (Kundalini tantric sex), "Prosperity gospel", NAR beliefs and rock music to their religion and seem to be growing. Combined with speaking in tongues, faith healing, and far-right political bent they are very different. They believe god will protect them from illness, yet have a militia."

  Sounds like theatrical entertainment !!
  
  
• 

  Foolednomore

  It does not work! Let it Die!
• 

  Reasonfirst

  no-zombie, quote:

  "...Jordan Peterson, who made very logical argument to say that even the most strongly avowed atheist still operates with Judao-Christian principles."

  An interesting viewpoint, except that from a global viewpoint, populations with a Judeo-Christian background number a little over one billion, which leaves some seven billion with a different ethical belief and background.

  Breaking that down a little more ( but still generalising) there's near 1.5 billion in India with a belief system based in Hinduism (which doesn't seem to have come from one man's teachings) and which is likely older than Judeo-Christian teachings.

  Only 13% of Indians, according to some research, have given up their religious beliefs.

  And not far away, another 1.4 billion in China, have a very interesting religious background, based for many on Buddhism, a belief system older than Christianity, but still very active in China. Visit any Buddhist temple and you will likely find crowds of people. And informatively, Buddhism, of course, originated in India, but spread throughout Asia.

  More interesting (to my mind) is the influence of Daoism and Confucianism in China.

  Daoism, (the word 'Dao' means the way, a word also used in Confucianism) also pre-dates Christianity and has a strong ethical background, but also supported what we could call 'proto-science.'

  Both Daoism and Confucianism allow freedom of ideas (unlike orthodox Christianity)

  Confucianism, in my opinion, is tolerant of 'new' ideas and to some commentators is more a system of philosophy than a religion.

  Which may help to understand, that according to the Pew Research Centre,

  Quote: "Roughly half (49%) say they are not a religious person, while 16% say they are a religious person."30 Aug 2023

  Of course, to be a CCP party member (which numbers near to 100 million) you must be an atheist.

  All the above, of course, is not an argument against no-zombie's conclusion. Quote:

  "So while it may be true that less people go to church or claim a particular faith, it doesn't mean that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. It just means people do not conscientiously see value in these social structures."

  Conclusion:

  If Christian religions vanished from the earth, nothing would change very much
  

  The lives of near 3 billion people (discussed above) are not very different in an ethical sense, to the lives of those who live in nations with a Judeo-Christian ethical background.
• 

  no-zombie

  I think that traditional religions in a practical way (in compared to having a nameless faith), provide communities of people who basically agree to uphold similar moral values. And I would go as far as to say that they may actually be critical for the long term continuation of human civilization.

  While it maybe a controversial thing to say in a growing secular world, for those who might think having churches is not that important, they may be missing two important things.

  Firstly, not everyone has the same capacity to live life without the emotional and social support a church can bring. Now I would imagine that while most of us here on this board, have likely been harden by our experiences with the Organization and are now quite resilient and strong independent thinkers, many that we previously called 'worldly' are not, particularly when they have aged or experience personal tragedies, as demonstrated many times over by increased church attendances during wars and other disasters.
  

  And secondly, while it might seem easier being a 'lone wolf' as an individual, no one is going to survive in life without friends of some kind. Which is going to be harder if the people around you, wonder if you are having sexual designs on their mate, plan to forcefully steal from them or commit some other kind of antisocial alpha chimpanzee action. Even packs of dogs have rules, and to live with others (at any level) there needs to some control or moderation over impulsive behavior. YouTube is full the results when 'Karens' and 'Kens' reject community norms, even now ... and we all know how it works out for them.
  

  Thus I believe that without a sustained standard of community morals (which religions are very good at providing), global society will eventually de-evolve into a Mad Max world were everyone is his own god ... which would be far worse than having a few gothic buildings in our suburbs.
  
• 

  no-zombie

  However I'd be much happier if those churches were Catholic or Protestant than Korowain.
  
• 

  Sea Breeze

  I have no problem with the death of religion. Let it die.

  Riley,

  Secularism is just another worlview. It fits the general description of religion. Meet the new boss:

  Last week, the California Senate Judiciary passed AB 957, which would consider it abusive for a parent to not affirm a child’s gender “identity” and would deny custody to non-affirming parents during custody disputes. An updated version of the bill specifically defines a child’s “health, safety, and welfare” to include “a parent’s affirmation of the child’s gender identity.”

  There is currently an ad campaign by the new religion of secularism claiming that men can have menstrual periods too.

  Remember, the WT got it's start by condemning "religionists", while at the same time promoting their new heretical religion.

  How dare those evil religionists claim that God created us "male and female"! Not much has changed. But, I for one won't be fooled by the same scam twice.
• 

  Riley

  The transgender thing is weird but I don't think they exist any real numbers that this is a real problem. Plus I think half of them are just trolls who love the attention and getting right wing loons all upset. I don't know. There has to be something to it . Why would you want to walk around with a target on your back with people calling you a queer, faggot, pedo, weirdo etc. Outside of sports and women's change rooms, you can just do you. None of my business. For the people taking about the innocence of the children, shit that is funny. Every kid is walking around with the worlds largest smut store on there telephone. Some of these sites are getting nearly 3 billion hits a month. I am sure they have already seen it all. Long gone are days of the Sears Catalogue and a vivid imagination.

  To have people protesting at my sons K-8 school without a single trans or gay kid, no drag queen hour or whatever is absolute bullshit. The whole thing is like the black parent who had there kid join some inner city gang at 17 and go to jail and turn around and blame society. Only if a democrat was in office, this wouldn't have happened. Either do your job as a parent or accept what your kid is but don't blame the schools. Just fuck off.
  

  In my neck of the world we currently have 300 or so kids in hospital with an Ecoli outbreak with some 20 in ICU care. The gutting of the health authorities by right wing is much or a threat to the safety of children.
  
• 

  Anony Mous

  It seems more and more people are becoming religious to me, you have about 2M “imports” just this year which are primarily Catholic. A lot of younger people are recognizing the need to have a religious community for their children to grow up in and the childless left wing politics has become a religion in and of itself, complete with their saints, priests, even prayers and doctrine.