Who deserves the title of king of apostasy ? (page 3)

JeffT

What Morpheus and Recovering said. If I wanted a new boss (same as the old boss) I would not have left the religion to begin with.

JW_Researcher

Agree with JeffT, Morpheus, and Recovering

If I wanted a new boss (same as the old boss) I would not have left the religion to begin with.

Lots of folks have assisted others. A couple of years after leaving (or at least PIMO), I found H2O and there were myriads and myriads of warriors that assisted.

VW.org wrote about John Cedars

And also like his friendly attitude to current JWs so as to gain their attention.

What has John Cedars added that is unique to the chorus that has come long before him? Understood that he helped you personally (a good thing) but doubtful many active JWs are watching his videos ...but I don't know....maybe they are. He comes across, to me, as smarmy and car-salesman-ish ...but that's just me.

This is the bit that caught my attention:

Now I am totally in agreement with his views

As several have mentioned, that's the last thing any of us need.... a new "charismatic" thought leader....and one who needs just a little more money to reach others to an even greater extent.

Just my two cents.

Finkelstein

From a secular viewpoint I think John Ceders (Lloyd ) is doing a pretty good job of exposing the WTS (JWS) cult, his approach is balanced, thought provoking, informative and sincere.

Of course from a biblical or theological viewpoint the WTS is the King of apostasy because it is an organization constructed around false prophecies and teachings, its an organization inherently corrupt by men who were and are self avowed power seekers proliferated through their own published literature and sustained by the orgazation's wealth and finances.

TerryWalstrom

John Redwood
Richard Kelly
Randy Watters
The above for wide-ranging influence over a number of years.
We never know what seed planted in a conversation will blossom in someone's heart into a portal to freedom.
So, every one of us can be that "king/queen" for a day.

Chook

My vote go to Terry Walstrom for his fine writings at exposing the cult. Thank you Terry.

VW.org

As several have mentioned, that's the last thing any of us need.... a new "charismatic" thought leader....and one who needs just a little more money to reach others to an even greater extent.
Just my two cents.

JW Researcher. Sorry that I may have come across as deluded by John Cedars, but he is not my idol. If you have any qualms about him, you should take that up with him. And you know what they say. "Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one".

dubstepped

Ray Franz, the OG apostate.

Today the crown would go to Cedars. That doesn't mean that there aren't others out there making a difference, but he's everywhere and I know for a fact that he's helped a lot of people in exiting the cult. He hits lots of different mediums of information and has a voice to his message that many like to hear. He's also quite well researched and produces good content.

Obviously passing the crown doesn't mean following any one man, or woman, it just means that the person is the most well known authority on the matter and this is a thread on a forum without much context. I wouldn't take any of this too seriously.

Ruby456

VW

my post to you has disappeared so I'll say it again

the gist of it was that imo it is okay to be taken in by charismatic people - we wouldn't be human if we weren't. The responsibility lies with the the leader to provide a worthwhile leadership.

another thing is that cedars draws love and hate and things in between too. Most leaders are like this. Once this phase passes (the phase of only seeing the good) you will be wiser for it.

so pls don't feel small and depressed by what JWresearcher said.

lots of people who have had mental illnesses in the past have provided valuable insights when situations have become really really bad. so chin up.

pale.emperor

Im gonna have to go with Paul Grundy (founder of JWFacts.com).

Lloyd Evans (aka John Cedars) is very good with his research and videos but JWFacts.com has all the research on there. Unlike Lloyd Evans, Paul Grundy is an ex-Bethelite so has that first hand experience, he went to the trouble of researching and presenting the content very well and creating the site not for monetary gain but just to put the information out there.

With Lloyd Evans, i do like his stuff, but i understand why some people dont take to him. I dont like that he plugs his book at the end of each video, i dont like that his book is overpriced and i dont like that in his new book he offered to let you tell your story... for a fee!

Ray Franz did sell his book but i dont hold that against him. The guy had no pension or savings due to serving Watchtower all his life.

Who deserves the title of king of apostasy ?