Dutch House of Representatives formally requests the government to start an investigation re. JW child abuse (page 2)

Doubter

Anders,

if they “know this”, then why did Dekker make such a ridiculous statement?

Anders Andersen

@Doubter,

You keep looking at this investigation as if it is a criminal case in court. It is not.

The government has seen ample evidence that makes them concerned enough to ask JW to investigate.

If their were clear evidence of illegal activities JW NL would be dragged to court indeed.

This investigation not about criminal activities.

It is about trying to make sure that JW policies are adequate in supporting victims and preventing child abuse in the first place.

The criminal part is for the DA's office.

You eagerness to defend JW and I guess the "everyone is out to get JW" mind set stops you fro looking at this as a process in which JW NL can improve themselves.

Do you think JW policies re. child abuse are somewhat flawed? Do you think JW can improve their policies and practices with help from non-JW experts?

Or do you think JW abuse policies are perfect? Do you think other organizations can learn from how JW supports victims and protects children?

If the answer to any of the above questions is yes, an independent investigation would help improve either JW or 'the world'.

I don't know why anyone would be against that.

Doubter

Anders, you say the jws refuse to acknowledge the have a problem with child abuse in the Netherlands.

Ok, show me the cases, court rulings, etc.

ill happily accept it.

but you admit there is no clear evidence of illegal activity (coverups, which are illegal).

So the investigation is really based on nothing but the opinions of the govt.

Doubter, you seem unaware of named individuals in the Netherlands (Holland) who have come forward with their allegations of child sexual abuse and JW organization's refusal to meet with them as a group. This is not driven by media hearsay. I encourage you to investigate the background to this development. For example, the John Cedars channel featured an indepth interview with one of the main spokespersons on this very issue in the Netherlands.

You appear to have not accessed earlier posts on this topic. Your adversarial approach is fine - critical inquiry is important in this area - but the speed with which you come back with rejoinders suggests you have made up your mind and blurring the issues (as Anders says this is not set up as a criminal investigation and could be compared to the Australian Royal Commission of Inquiry into Institutional Responses to Allegations of Child Sexual Abuse.

Doubter

And your questions are horribly flawed, because you were suggesting that any imperfect organization needs to be investigated by the government.

are you serious? Don’t we all have rights?

Doubter

I think when I’m saying is, that when a government wants to investigate you, the expectation is that there is some evidence that facilitates it. There HAS to be, or the investigation is by default illegal.

So what I am hearing is that they don’t have any evidence, but they want investigate anyway.

that makes no sense, unless, they merely believe what they are being told yet can’t validate independently.

steve2

And your questions are horribly flawed, because you were suggesting that any imperfect organization needs to be investigated by the government.

are you serious? Don’t we all have rights?

My apologies if your comments were not directed at me but I will answer as if they are:

For the record, government-directed inquiries are not premised on an organization being "imperfect" for no organization is. They are premised on individuals from identified organizations who have spoken out against their own sexual abuse - which is exactly what happened in the Roman Catholic Church some decades ago.

You may or may not realize that in the earlier stages of investigations into child sexual abuse within that religion, those who were upset that the Catholic Church was being treated unfairly used similar reasoning to yours.

Of course organization's have rights but they also have responsibilities to their "charges" (in this case, children).

To repeat, if you are in the dark about what a government-directed inquiry looks like, I direct you to the Australian Royal Commission who had very clear criteria that were far from arbitrary and consistently applied across a number of religious institutions and organizations.

Doubter

Who cares about the RCC right now? They admitted to hiding abuse, and so has the Pope. Their guilt is beyond doubt.

The jws have no such established guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

Apples to oranges

redpilltwice

Thanks for sharing Anders. Again, me and my fellow WT watchers (both inside and outside the congregation) were delighted regarding this important next step since minister Dekker wrote his first letter in december 2017. Let them sceptical jw's and abuse deniers sweat some more and wake up! Challenging Caesar is one thing, dealing with the concequences another... Rom. 13:1

Doubter

Steve2,

im fine with government inquires, I only care about the basis, or premises, because fairness matters most.

Personally, I want this one to happen.

Dutch House of Representatives formally requests the government to start an investigation re. JW child abuse

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