Hello from an exmormon

by Cold-Dodger 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • Cold-Dodger
    Cold-Dodger

    Someone named John Free popped in on one of my posts at exmormon[dot]com and mentioned this website.

    Hello! I have a lot of questions. I never knew much about about the JW church. I served one of those two-year missions for my church when I was nineteen, and my "companion" and I frequently saw JWs out "tracting" like we do. I was so curious, but they would never talk to me. They would pass us by without a word and without an eye glance. (So odd!)

    I was able to get my hands on a New World Translation (the other Mormon missionaries jokingly called it the "new world transgression") and a little pamphlet called, "What does the Bible REALLY teach?"

    I was a bookish young missionary obsessed with religion, so I familiarized myself with parts of the pamphlet. I can't remember much except some novel moments, like a picture of Jesus that looked uncannily like Commander Riker from Star Trek:TNG, a section that mathematically 'proved' that 1914 was important for some reason, and some others.

    Jay-dubs, as the Mormon missionaries affectionately call them, are known to us mostly by their 'weird' beliefs. They would rather die than get a blood transfusion? They predicted the Lord's coming in 1914, and when he didn't come, they said it was a spiritual coming? And everyone believed it? They shun their own family members if they apostsatize? "Wow," I thought. The next couldn't help itself, "said what a cult!"

    X,D imagine the irony that I couldn't see it in myself or in my own way of life. I'll admit, the quirks are a bit different, but the Mormon church is every bit as culty too if the JW church can be called one.

    I want to exchange some culture with you guys to compare and contrast. We both know that when you're inside the delusion, the idea that it could be a delusion is ever-present, but you defend off the thought by ascribing it to Satan the devil tempting you away from a conviction of the truth. Thus, when someone has got their conviction all thought-out, the accusation that it is a delusion, or a cult, seems to be as far from plausibility as one end of the universe is from he other, but it still rattles your cage and makes you angry that other people won't stop, listen, and put as much thought into this as you have, because it is the THE MOST IMPORTANT MESSAGE EVER!

    I look back, and I'm amazed at how many people tried to 'rescue' me there on their own doorsteps. Everyone seemed united against us, and it only strengthened my conviction that the Devil was against us and he had the world in the bondage of sin.

    I knew the way I saw the world was different, but I was convinced it was good. Not just good, but just and true. Not just just and true, but absolutely necessary for someone's "eternal progression" (Mormon salvation).

    Mormons are big on feelings. There's a moment in the gospel of Luke, chapter 24 I think, where two disciples meet Jesus in the way, and he expounds the scriptures to them. They don't realize it was him until he vanished from their sight, and then they turned to each other and said, "Did not our hearts burn within us?"

    In this way, Mormons believe that the "burning in the bosom" is one of the most intimate ways that God communicates spiritual truth to us. In fact, everything we do for and teach our children or our "investigators" (proselytes) is calculated towards helping them induce that mindset where they will be "open to the spirit." The spirit comes in and testifies to them by causing their hearts to burn, or if failing that then by giving them the chills or making them feel really good about what we are preaching to them. We tell them that these feelings mean the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.

    What would surprise you the most about meeting with Mornin missionaries is how utterly sincere they seem when they say these things. Most of them do mean it, but we are taught in a thousand conscious and unconscious ways always to testify of the gospel with the uttermost conviction around nonmembers. When we aren't "bearing our testimony," we make sure we are doing it through our good example. Some people think we are most creepily cheery people on earth, and that's because we overdo it when we know someone is watching. It doesn't mean there isn't plenty of misery in Mormon culture. Once you become a familiar (say, two or three years a new member), people stop treating you nicely and treat you like the meat that we all feel like when we attend church. By "meat," I mean we feel like going to church is expected, serving "faithfully in the kingdom" is expected, and anyone who doesn't pull their wait and do exactly as they are told is a shame to themselves and treated accordingly by the most Puritanical religious society you have ever been a part of.

    Thats about the time that you start to learn about all the baggage from the Mormon church's past. Mormons believe in "milk before meat," which means they will not tell you certain things about their beliefs until after you have progressed another circle in towards the most inner circle. Knowledge is given as fast as you prove that you are able to bear it, otherwise Mormons believe it is forbidden, and they bite their tongues around investigators and recent converts about the most controversial aspects of church history and some of the more 'unique' beliefs that we have that jive against the Christian image that we carefully lulled them into baptism with.

    If the Mormon people can, they will. Your baptism is what matters most to them: scoring points in heaven. That's not to say all Mormons are insincere, but it IS to say these are their priorities and the church is at the very top of the list. God, Jesus, the church, the kingdom of God, the living prophets and apostles who guide it, etc. all comes on the same package for us. It is not divisible or open to committee. It is ALL true, or get out, because you are obviously one of 'those,' a wolf in sheeps clothing.

    Meeting someone who thinks for their self with impunity, when it wasn't expected, is an experience that can really rattle a Mormon. We have this automatic sorting system in our heads for church leadership, faithful members, less active members, and apostates. Everyone else is a gentile who hasn't heard the good news yet, or they would already be Mormon, at least, if it weren't for the thousand religions and contradictory ideas that Satan had spread throughout the world with the single intent of preoccupying and distracting people from the true gospel that is found only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    I began waking up a few years after I returned from my mission and all the pieces started coming together. It was the novel 1984 by George Orwell that finally put them in pace for me to see clearly, "oh my God!!! We're a cult!!!"

    Tell me about what it is like growing up as a Witness. What is family life like? What are JW parents typically like? Share the culture with me and also, what is it like becoming a member of the JW church? I want to know what JW culture is like in general, not just all the ways it sucks (believe me, I require no convincing of what cruelty, abuse and inhumanity a cult is capable of inflicting and hiding it, more or less successfully, from the public eye. I've already made tremendous progress overcoming some traumas myself from my very abusive 'daily walk with the Lord.' Mormon God is a cruel, childish, capricious bastard.)

  • Slave4_38y
    Slave4_38y
    Thanks for the post. An ex-mormon YouTube video made me see the flaws in my own religion. I think this has happened to many. I'm glad you are now cult-free. Welcome to the forum.
  • Cold-Dodger
    Cold-Dodger
    Thank you. You too. I know what little I noticed about JWs and how everyone despised them opened me up to understand how people perceived Mormonism much the same way, and for good reasons. I guess you could say Jehovah God illuminated my path ;)
  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    Hi there Cold-Dodger. Welcome to the forum. Looking at this site must be like looking into a funhouse mirror. You recognize your reflection yet it's so radically distorted.

    From an objective point of view one can say that they're both on the same level psychologically but it seems that Mormons have a bigger imagination.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    Hey! Great post and I enjoyed hearing about how it is in Mormom church and it's VERY similar with JWs.

    The part you mentioned on new members getting love, same with JW's, the love bombing. Then eventually as well after they are official then it wears off and expected to do as all others. The order is the same, and they call ex members apostates or disfellowshipped and those who never been JW's before, those in the world, instead of gentiles are called 'worldly'.

    I'll write more later or feel free to message me, I gotta go now but thought I'd at least get started in the comparison for you.

    I do want to ask on the Mormon belief of the future, etc. What is the belief of Earth? And the afterlife? I heard something along the lines of Earth is a testing ground and those who pass become a god and get to rule over a planet?

  • Khaleesi
    Khaleesi
    Hi, welcome I have a question, what happens to those who disagree with teachings as taught by the Mormon church?
  • Sabin
    Sabin

    Hello Mr ex- Mormon man, I'm Sabin. Growing up as a jw is different for each child, prob's the same as the Mormon's, some are hard core parents, poor kid's, whereas others are really soft & don't follow the rule books. At the end of the day if you got loving understanding parents that in-courage you to be yourself & love you no matter your believes then what ever religion your in your going be better off than a kid who is being out rightly abused. It's nice to have some-one on the forum from a different religious cult I do hope you will stay.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    Welcome! I know a few ex Mormons, including my daughter-in-law. While the beliefs are different, the culture is very similar. We also used to think the Mormons were weird and couldn't understand how they could believe such far fetched things, lol.

    We also were taught that Satan was always trying to deceive us, so we should not trust anything but the organization. Family life was pretty similar, life revolved around meetings and field service. They now have two meetings a week, about two hours each, usually one on Sunday and another on a weeknight, but there used to another one hour meeting in small groups in people's homes. Saturday morning was usually field service. Families were encouraged to study together one night a week. All were required to do field service, at least ten hours were expected to be spent in door to door work a month.

    It's like any small closed group of people anywhere, some nice, some not so nice, a few nutters and some real jerks. Meetings are pretty boring, rote question and answer sessions where the answer is given, content of talks (sermons) are from outlines provided by the governing body or leadership. Unity and obedience is strictly enforced. There is little tolerance for individuality or independent thought.

    Mormons believe in "milk before meat," which means they will not tell you certain things about their beliefs until after you have progressed another circle in towards the most inner circle.

    JWs study for at least six months with interested individuals before baptism. They also don't tell them certain things until they have been properly prepared, as in mind control, some things you don't find out until after you are baptized. They practice disfellowshipping, or shunning, people can be shunned for just about anything that three elders agree on, but they are especially alhard on apostacy or disobedience to authority. It's a very rigid heirarchy. Three elders meet with a person, if they agree they are disfellowshipped, an announcement is made and you will lose all your family and friends overnight, they are not told the reason and you will have no recourse. Shunning is pretty strictly enforced, more so than the Mormons, from what I understand.

    As in any religion, it's not all bad, I had many friends that I miss now. There are some biblical principles they teach that are good, honesty, integrity, morality, etc, but you can get that from any religion.

    All in all I regret wasting thirty years of my life in this. They constantly make you feel guilty for not doing enough, they discourage higher education (at least Mormons don't do that), I made so many bad decisions. But like any cult, they have you convinced they, and only they have the path to salvation.

    If you haven't read this yet I recommend the book Mistakes were made (but not by me), why we justify foolish beliefs, bad decisionand and hurtful acts. It explains cognitive dissonance, and why people reject facts when it conflicts with a cherished belief system.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim
    Welcome Cold Dodger.
  • Simon
    Simon
    Jay-dubs, as the Mormon missionaries affectionately call them, are known to us mostly by their 'weird' beliefs

    LOL, that's what we thought about you guys too !!

    It's amazing how we would look at Mormons and sneer at how 'dumb' they must be to fall for being in a cult and not realize it. "ho ho ho, we're so much cleverer" we though ... turns out we weren't.

    Looking at the ex's of both communities I get the impression that Mormons seem to do a bit better after leaving and have less psychological dysfunction. That could be ignorance and unfamiliarity with your situation though. The ex-Mormon message always seems to be trying to reach out and explain the issues rather than simply rant against the church or try to destroy it.

    ExJWs seem to have more bitterness. Maybe it's because they sacrifice more career and education wise and end up in a worse place financially as a result? I don't know, probably sweeping generalizations but Mormons always seem to be more professional level people. The families we know always seem like nice people and the kids are very respectful (lots round here in lower Alberta).

    Whatever the case, it's great getting insights into both camps to see how various messages and approaches resonate.

    It seems the WTS right now is trying to copy the LDS and become less "amateurish". Even way back when we were always meeting in rented halls and basements the LDS had fantastic churches and everything looked super slick. I think both may have reached their growth ceilings though - we can but hope.

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