Capital Punishment and the WTS, yes or no?

by blondie 21 years ago 20 Replies latest 21 years ago watchtower beliefs

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  fearnotruth22 21 years ago

  Seems that the elder was only speaking for himself and not voicing wt official teaching on the subject.

  The wt does say that Government does have God given authority to execute capital punishment. By endorsing state execution as an expression of God's authority, the wt is actually saying yes to capital punishment while claiming to have a neutral position.

  Captital punshment endorsed in the Bible wasfor moral law violations and was a direct expression of God's justice (according to the Bible). So that even when the Bible states that God used Assyria, Rome, as God's executioner, it does not mean that God had given these Caesars the authority to execute because they represented God's justice in all cases but only on specific instances.

  In the USA the state does not dictate what is moral neither is anyone killed for moral reasons but only for legal reasons, however the Bible only endorsed moral based executions in the pastby God's agents

  In our time Again, and again, and again the state has mistakenly executed inocent victims, oops Im sorry. And with all of the corruption ad deception, and mockery that makes up the Us court system and all world court systems being responsible for murdering whom they want, one cannot trust the state foe excuting anyone. But above and beyong that, there arte other reasons.

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  TD 21 years ago

  I think while Eugenio Muriel may be very close to crossing the line, his statement is still acceptable within the framework of Witness theology. Refraining from debating an opinion is not quite the same thing as not having an opinion at all.

  The Witness view of capital punishment is in one respect, similar to their view on blood. They believe that it actually predates the Law, having been enjoined by God upon all mankind as part of the Noachian covenant.

  "As Lawgiver, Judge and Supreme Sovereign, Jehovah God can also delegate to others the authority to execute lawbreakers. After the flood of Noah?s day, for example, he authorized humans to administer capital punishment for deliberate murder. We read: "Anyone shedding man?s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God?s image he made man." (Gen. 9:6) The human authority, by executing the murderer, would be acting as "God?s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad."?Rom. 13:4." (The Watchtower, May 15, 1973 p. 302)

  "Because of God?s view of the value of life, the blood of a murdered person is said to defile the earth, and such defilement can be cleansed only by shedding the blood of the murderer. On this basis the Bible authorizes capital punishment for murder, through duly constituted authority. (Nu 35:33; Ge 9:5, 6) In ancient Israel no ransom could be taken to deliver the deliberate murderer from the death penalty.?Nu 35:19-21, 31." (Insight on the Scriptures volume I p. 344)

  Therefore it unavoidable that Witnesses would have an opinion on the subject. And while Muriel may be satisfied that someone else (In this case, the prosecutor) may frame an argument in accordance with that opinion, he has not joined in the debate himself. Technically he has not even directly expressed an opinion on the question of whether the State should actually follow through and exercise that right, he has only expressed his satisfaction that the argument will be made.

  It may be a subtle difference, but it is the sort of technicality that the Witness organization thrives on.

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  czarofmischief 21 years ago

  I concur that the WT would have us all executed if they could.

  I don't think that God really has a problem with executions - at least, He hasn't complained recently, not to me at least.

  Due to the recent spate of exonerations, my previous hard-core pro-death penalty stand has been pulled back.

  I still think that executions are a valid form of social denunciation, but it should be reserved for the worst crimes against humanity. Mass murderers, serial killers, Democrats... Guilt should not even be a question in anybody's mind, otherwise it should be life in prison.

  CZAR

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  blondie 21 years ago

  Seems that the elder was only speaking for himself and not voicing wt official teaching on the subject.

  fear, that is true, we know that because of our JW background. But the average reader, a non-JW, would see him as speaking as a representative, elder, of the organization.

  I can't even count how many times I was confronted at the door with some eccentric behavior of an individual JW and the householder accused all JWs of thinking/acting that way.

  Blondie

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  fearnotruth22 21 years ago

  Maybe blondie.

  But all thinking people in the USA know that church leaders of mainstream religions frequently express their personal views and feelings on matters many times controversial to church policy.Howver Since the jws are viewd as eccntric by the majority, I agrre that people can erroneusly conclude that all jws are like the one under the microscope.

  But my post also states that although the elder was only expressing his feelings and not the society's official position, in actuality YES to capital punishment at leats in the US. is the society's position as my post explains, And thats the point that I am focusing on. What I ma stating is that although the wat claims to be neutral, actualy it says yes to capital punishment so unknown to the elder, he was actually stating the wt position.

  WT position is mysterious.

  How about in countries where adultery and other moral crimes are punishable with the death penalty? Can the wt say that the state has God given authority to execute capital punishment for such moral crimes? In the Bible murder was not the only capital offense.So for the execution of what crimes does the wt say that the state is actinng for God. In the Bible , what is the difference between murder and adultery. Both required the death penalty from God before Jesus.Since in the NT Jesus forgives repenatnt sinners of all capital crimes How can the state have God given authority to execute for sins forgiven by Jesus especially because Jesus sates that "all authority has been given to me.."

  Why then say God has authorized the state to execute capital punishment representing God's justice which is based on Bible laws which he has abloished with the new covenant as believed by the wt

  God allows the state to exist hence it is sais that God gives it authoiry, God also alloes murder does one conclude that God also authorizes that?

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  blondie 21 years ago

  Well-said fearnotruth. I sometimes play the Devl's advocate. I'll agree that the WTS says not to have a public position on a political issue which capital punishment is. I also know that what the WTS says publicly and what they believe privately can be 2 different things, such as reporting child abuse and not dfing but daing those that have a blood transfusion. Personally, I have never felt comfortable about capital punishment because of working in the court system. I saw the errors that were made. And even when one has a good reason, taking a life is not easy. I agree that there are countries that execute people for crimes that don't warrant it, such as adultery. Unfortunately, the punishment for that crime is weighed more often against women than men.

  I'm glad I live in a state that doesn't have capital punishment.

  As to the WTS explanation, you are right, the capital offenses under the Law are most often different than today and that no one is under the Law code today but the law of love. While I don't think a person should be executed, I do think they should be confined for life because human judgment is flawed and inaccurate.

  Most often when I discuss the WTS position, I do not necessarily support it. I like to point out where they say one thing but do another. In my area, that brother would have had someone talk to him about being more careful to reflect the official position of the WTS. I have been told that JWs should be very careful about giving out their personal opinions, because people tend to think that all JWs feel that way.

  I agree that the WTS explanation for supporting capital punishment is on shaky ground. But then they teach that God is going to destroy all the wicked at Armageddon although they admit not everyone will get a personal witness.

  Thanks for your thoughts.

  Blondie

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  fearnotruth22 21 years ago

  Thank you Blondie.

  I am in agreement with your view. Personally I feel that the state does not have a God given "right" to execute capital punishment as the wt mag posted argues.

  While I do not challenge the state's power to execute,and neither do I rebel against it, I do challenge the scriptural arguments used to support the belief that Caesar has a God given right to do it. I also challenge the state's legislation which authorizes the state to execute the death sentence as a legal requirement for capital offenses. In my opinion the only justification for killing is self defense.

  Might makes right so that govs do whatever they want, executing laws to legalize their actions , but the less rights God gives the state the better of humanity will be.

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  blondie 21 years ago

  Yes, fearnotruth, self-defense and defense of family too (probably you meant that).

  By the confusionn of JWs as to WTS policy, we can see how the WTS speaks out of both sides of their mouth and has written and unwritten rules.

  Blondie

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  BluesBrother 21 years ago

  Most dubs took from that WT article the view that Capital Punishment is OK for deliberate murder. ( Most Brits that I know seem to believe that anyway, despite our court system)

  I believe that the bit about not entering a political debate was added so they would not be quoted on the issue

  I could not criticise this elder for speaking to the press. Anyway, on the occasions that elders that I knew did speak to the press, they claimed to have been misquoted

  Anyway, what is the death of a convicted murderer, to a person who happily anticipates the mass slaughter of untold billions of people, and looks forward to "Inheriting" their land?

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  Gozz 21 years ago

  w97 6/15 31 Questions From Readers (Excerpt from end of following account) But when it comes to the controversial question of whether any government of this world should exercise its right to execute murderers, genuine Christians remain carefully neutral. Unlike the clergy of Christendom, they keep out of any debate on this subject.

  Idiots!

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