Just received Crisis of Conscience!!

by acsot 82 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Satanus

  Joker

  If I were a JW

  You're such a joker. But, stick around. Jokes lighten the atmosphere.

  SS
• 

  Gopher

  AlanB --

  I didn't find the book overly religious. If anything, Ray leaves it up to you what to do with the information he presents, just as he did in CoC. From his extensive quoting of scripture (which he does to contrast it to the JW practices and procedures) you can tell he still has faith in the Bible. I don't have as much faith in it as he does, and yet I didn't feel "put off" by the book.

  The book is larger, and therefore is not as easy a read as CoC, but it's very to easy to find chapters and portions that are interesting (especially to current and former JW's).

  Here are some reviews I found on the Barnes and Noble website about ISOCF:

  (#1) Ok, not for the faint hearted or easily distracted. . . This is a powerful book of facts, statistics, references, court records and eye witness accounts; and while it might seems a bit dry to some, if you delve into it, CF will rip the scales from your eyes - whether you like it or not! Between this book and Crisis of Conscience, Ray Franz turned the highbeams on the WBTS Governing Body's seedy background and left them no where to hide. Little wonder it's been 'disbanded' now. If you are looking for the reality behind the trappings of a cult, then this book is the primer. Without a hint of malice, but rather with a feeling of sadness, Franz exposes the truth behind the 'truth' and the calculated wording of 'God's mouthpiece'. This is one to keep and refer back to again and again.
  
  (#2) I know that Jehovah's Witnesses highly discourage reading anything they consider of an 'apostate nature', but with an open mind I read this book. I have no regrets, for I feel that if Jehovah's Witnesses make comments about other religions based on their research, it is only fair that the same be done with them. In the case of Raymond Franz, he has 'been there, done that' and the things I read I personally can relate to. There is always 'two sides to a story' and Mr. Franz has clearly given 'the other side'. After reading this book and the Crisis book, along with my personal experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses and that of others that I've personally witnessed, I am 100% convinced that the Jehovah's Witnesses religion is a cult. They have a smooth way of seducing folks (and I was seduced), and I recommend this book to anyone who wants to know 'the truth' and be set free from this cult.
  
  
  (#3) In recent years, events surrounding the Jehovah's Witnesses movement as well as the stirring of sentiment from those who have left the organization have precipitated a flood of critical literature. Those who hail the movement as representing God's vested interests on earth view this tide of critical thinking with a great deal of suspicion and even distrust. Yet it might be said that none of the writers of 'worldly' literature have written with the unreserved compassion, scholastic authority, and the wealth of real-life experience stemming from many decades spent within the organization as has Raymond V. Franz. 'In Search of Christian Freedom' brings together a rich array of background knowledge and memories of Franz' actual conversations with top leaders within the Watch Tower organization, thoroughly investigating the validity of its claims. As with most related literature, the book makes use of old publications and documents which the organization has virtually buried through decades of organizational upheaval and policy changes. However, Franz also reviews and tests the entire authority structure of his former religion, making a solid inquiry into the general issue of Christian freedom as it pertains to other religious movements as well using sound logic, Biblical and moral precedents. Franz investigates why members of comparable religious movements believe what they do. On the whole, the samples provided are quite relevant, and the commentary is logical, valid, and thorough; although admittedly the book is text-heavy, quite serious in tone and requires patience to read. What 'Christian Freedom' lacks in conciseness, however, it easily makes up for in its depth of thought, challenging the reader at every bend to make an informed value judgment of claims to religious freedom. Franz makes no excuses, his course of action clearly documented with absolutely no trace of sentimentality, hostility, or prejudice against any religious group. Carefully-worded expositions on the Christian mindset and motivations for the Christian life leave an indelibly strong mark on the reader who is honestly willing to investigate. Franz' experience has apparently strengthened his faith, rather than demolishing it... a refreshing point of note to comfort readers who are hesitant to forego their faith in God, in Jesus as his Son, and as the Bible as the Word of God. At the same time, 'Christian Freedom' leaves a great deal of room for diversity of opinion and ideology, addressing the core issues which should be closest to the heart of those involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses or with any similar organization. ---My main complaint regarding this book is the sheer bulk. Franz has apparently sacrificed readability and simplicity of thought for comprehensiveness. I also think that some of the personal anecdotes in the book are beginning to show their age, as Franz left the Watch Tower organization in the early 1980's. For those who are actively questioning the validity and properness of submitting to religious authority or of ready-made religious systems for a meaning in life, however, I believe that one could hardly do better than to delve into this book.
• 

  Euphemism

  Sorry Ray, but I think that many who left the WTS did so for "genuine" reasons that have nothing to do with wanting to follow Jesus. They just want to be themselves.

  I think that Ray's definitely reasonable enough to recognize that many non-Christian ex-JWs left the organization for reasons of conscience. He blames the WTS for their loss of faith however, and suggests that if not for the hypocrisy of the JWs, they might have remained Christians.

  Personally, I left the WTS still wanting to remain a Christian; and it was my research into Christianity after I left that convinced me leave that behind as well. So I think that Ray's view is rather blinkered. But I do believe that he respects and recognizes the sincere motives of non-Christian ex-JWs.
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  seattleniceguy

  Before I read CoC, I had little to no remaining respect for Christianity or the Bible. Although I still do not believe that the Bible is the Word of God in the traditional sense, and I believe that Jesus was an enlightened spiritual leader of the ilk of Buddha and Plato, I must say that Ray Franz has been the single largest influence toward a tempering of my views. Although I do not choose the Christian universe-view for myself, I now am able to respect those who do in a much more genuine way.

  How ironic that the man who I once believed was so evil and apostate actually did more than the ones I held in such high esteem to affect my view of Christianity in such a positive way!

  SNG
• 

  acsot

  SNG:

  and I believe that Jesus was an enlightened spiritual leader of the ilk of Buddha and Plato, I must say that Ray Franz has been the single largest influence toward a tempering of my views. Although I do not choose the Christian universe-view for myself, I now am able to respect those who do in a much more genuine way.

  How ironic that the man who I once believed was so evil and apostate actually did more than the ones I held in such high esteem to affect my view of Christianity in such a positive way!

  You put that very well. My feelings exactly.
• 

  AlanB

  Interesting views.... I shall order a copy. A
• 

  seattleniceguy

  I do believe we've sold five or six copies with this thread!

  How about it, Joker? You gonna be Lucky Number Seven? You know you want it!!

  Hee hee, sorry. Couldn't help it.
• 

  Joker10

  No, I won't be Number Seven.
• 

  acsot

  Joker: in all seriousness, the real "truth" can stand up to any amount of scrutiny and investigation. Reading a book cannot destroy one's faith if it is based on what is actually true. Only insecurity (based on a shaky foundation) fears examining outside evidence. As a JW I used to tell others to examine the pros and cons of their beliefs. Personal integrity and honesty should allow JWs to do the same with whatever the WTS publishes.
• 

  Dansk

  Joker,

  You come here and read the posts, many of which are more damning than Crisis of Conscience. You know that, in JW eyes, you're already damned for being on an apostate site. So why won't you read Ray Franz's book? Why do you come here when it is strictly forbidden by Watchtower?

  Ian