Is this Islam?

by Sirona 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Yerusalyim

  Eyebrow said,

  for some on the fanatical side it might.

  I do not know a lot about islam...but what i have learned is like any other religion, you have your extremes.

  Actually, that's the main stream view, not the radical or extreme view for women in Islam. Do all Muslim women practice this? Nope, just as all Christian Women are not in submission to their husband in any sense of the word.

  Actually though, up until about 150 years ago, Muslim women had more rights than western women did.

  This is the ideal for muslim women, but similar text could be written on how men should behave toward their muslim wife.
• 

  Hyghlandyr

  Let me first comment on Muslim's comments...

  I am dubious whether this fellow is actually islamic. Though his statements are similar to those of other muslims I have meet. As far as nudity goes, why are a man's breasts inoffensive yet a woman's breasts are offensive. It is immoral to hide the human body all of the time, and it should be revealed. The beatings, stonings, jealousies, wars and such that sexual control has created demonstrate the immoralness of the position of monogamy, marraige, and sexual restraint. I am speaking here of the type of restraint imposed by one on another, through penalty, physical, emotional, mental and such. Guilt is heaped upon people because of sexual practices and desire, both beautiful and natural, and yes this includes lesbianism and male homosexuality. The fact that these all are seen as threats is immoral in themselves. Sexual and other forms of self control, of consent, are holy however. It is righteous to enjoy sex or to refrain, as one CHOOSES to do so without imposition on another. She that will refrain is equally as sacred as she that will indulge. Both doing so of their own decisions and free will, neither forced. He that chooses lovers or lover is as sacred as he that does not. Many have a long way to go to see this perspective...islam, christians, atheists, pagans. I still see many that think of morals in context of sexuality. I see morals in context of consent and violence. If you are harming another you are immoral (unless they consent to it as say in the case of boxers or wrestlers, and that with rules)

  Now regarding the comments from the link...

  Many of the things said there if applied to husband and wife, male and female, across lovers, friends, siblings, workmates, and such, would be a beautiful thing. If someone is angry, and she does not want to be pressed for why, let her alone for the time until she is ready to talk about it. If he wants to go for a walk by himself until he is calm enough to talk about what is making him angry without biting at her, so be it. But it should apply to both, and all. This is simply common wisdom.

  However much of what is written there is with slavery in mind. While some of it is very reasonable..be beautiful for your man, be attractive for your woman (applying it here as I am equally as can be done to all four sexes, male, female, intersexed, and genderless), some of it is clearly an indication of sharp control. Think you the muslims are different than christians? Read christian works, written by women, and you will find similar things. In a BDSM context, of consent, it would be totally cool. They could have added, kneel when he enters the room and lick his boots. :D
• 

  Hyghlandyr

  Here is their view on husbands makingg their wives happy:
• 

  talesin

  Sirona,

  I would say Muslim fundamentalism is very close to Christian fundamentalism in its mysogeny (sp).

  Think about our Christian-Judeo laws in the western world. Until recently, men owned their wives. Until recently, wife beating and rape was considered a private matter, not punishable by the courts. Until recently, women were kept 'barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen'. Check out a Cosmo or LHJ and see how much time and $$$ women put into 'pleasing men'.

  In my mind, Muslim & Christian are so close it isn't funny. *shrug* Oh, well.

  Irshad Manji, featured in L_T's first link, is a good example of a modern Islamic woman who is busting Islamic fundy stereotypes (she's a Canadian, BTW ).

  my 2

  tal
• 

  Hyghlandyr

  Talesin, good points. Of course men are starting finally to work on things like pleasin chicks. And beauty. We even have makeup now. Finally a man can wear makeup and look good and not be considered effiminate (sp?).

  Those points that the men can do for their women that I posted were not entirely unreasonable. But, while giving some things that are nice, the facts are that women are still subjugated. As we learned with the taliban, when women are subjugated, so are men. It is time to let freedom ring. And to dismiss these ancient middle eastern rules and texts designed entirely around inheriting of land and sheep! (This includes the various hebraic, christian, islamic, zoarastrian and other texts). Give me Irish religion, even Irish christianity (pre roman impositions) over any of that nonsense..or some of the old african religions wherein women were equal (again before islamic impositions).
• 

  bisous

  Sirona, thank you for this thread and exposing another man made religion for the SHAM it is... another tool for oppressing women and any others deemed lesser at the time.
  

  Let them cloak their misogyny in statements of piety and 'balance' for the males as well as women. I am not fooled. These are but thinly veiled attempts to present their 'teachings' *brainwashing* in a way that is more palatable to the masses.

  Catholic, Jehovah's Witness, Muslim, Baptist, 7th Day Adventist, Mormon, Protestant, Pentecostal............the list goes on and on........ just try to distill the chaff *HATE* wrapped in false words of condescending love and guidance

  No one here can convince me otherwise .... God help the brainwashed masses who line up for their dose of religious instruction *opiate* , failing to think for themselves.........

  
  
  
  
• 

  Abaddon

  Why it is surprising that a religion several hundred years younger than Christianity is still doing things Christianity was doing several hundred years ago?

  If you are ignorant of history, you are incapable of viewing things in a historical context, and (as some people show extremely well) are likely to point the finger of blame at another's religion today for the errors their own religion was committing in the past.
• 

  bisous

  actually there is nothing surprising about any religion....and frankly I disagree it has anything to do with history....other than the adage about repeating one's self

  From inception, religion has been used in much the same way....to provide (mis)guidance to those incapable of thinking for themselves and to oppress those who were powerless to protect themselves, regardless of their individual beliefs.
• 

  Hyghlandyr

  I liked your comments about a religion several hundred years younger than christianity doing things that christianty was doing several hundred yearrs ago. Woe to the jws..they are, as I have said multiple times, in the place that the catholic church was several hundred years ago.

  Religion..control. Why not make up your own? its more fun. If you are going to be misogynistic..why not include whips and chains consensually..and make it fun..yum
• 

  L_A_Big_Dawg

  I don't know where this posted link came from, but I will post something about Islam from the Quoran, Surah 4:34.

  Men are the managers of the affairs of women...those you fear [women] may be rebelious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.

  So whatever is written there, I would presuppose that the woman would have to do in order to avoid a beating.