Too fu----g right he should
Opinion: Should Saddam Die?
by seattleniceguy 35 Replies latest social current
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Gerard
Yes.
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freelife
I say shove a very large hand grenade up his arse.
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seattleniceguy
Thank you again, everyone, for your comments.
I was coming at this, not out of sympathy for Saddam, but out of consideration of what is in the best interest of society. I have yet to see any reason why societally-sponsored killing makes the society better, and I think there are many reasons why it hurts the society in real ways.
That said, Sandy provided me with some good food to chew on. Her comments mixed with my own thought codified as follows:
Regardless of what I think about the psychological effects of living in a culture that practices vindictiveness, what Iraq needs most critically right now is stabilizing forces. If Iraqi culture is such that not killing Saddam would cause a large portion of the population to feel that a travesty of justice had occurred, then I can see the value for that culture in killing him.
Thanks for your tempering comment, Sandy.
SNG
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czarofmischief
I agree. I just read an article on the culture of revenge in Iraq, and how it is leading to spontaneous acts of assassination of former members of the secret police, etc. Revenge for punishment's sake is probably to the detriment of the long term hopes of Iraqi society. Although, it is probably more necessary than my peace-loving heart can admit.
I wrote thread on this whole subject before, about my conflicted emotions.
Why is Saddam different from other monsters in Iraq? Because he represents Iraq, as it was and as it hopes to become. Killing him is a way to express contempt for his actions, but will it help overcome those actions' consequences?
I'm more pragmatic than most, I'm focusing on my goal - I want a stable peaceful Iraqi run democracy in Iraq. What do I have to do to get there? Is executing Saddam a step on that road, or is there another way that would help speed the process along?
It's at times like this that a Divine judge would be really really handy, wouldn't it? According to the legend, it was Jehovah himself who judged Manasseh as to repentance...
I'm going to get all sappy, but LOTR had a line that made me think.; When all the evidence seems incontrovertible, when making moral choices, "What does your heart tell you?"
Surprisingly, especially to myself, I'm going to say that my heart says that executing Saddam is not the way to go, in this particular case.
In my fantasy, Saddam would be put on display, like it says in Macbeth, "Like our rarer monsters are." He would live in a tiny room, behind thick, bulletproof glass. Any citizen of Iraq would be permitted to enter a visiting chamber on the other side of the glass (after a search for bombs, of course) and could ask him questions via a microphone. He would not be obligated to respond, but he could not avoid having to listen to questioning citizens of his former nation. Maybe a webcam could be set up for 24 hour humiliation as we all watch him live out his days in ascetic poverty.
Relatives of those murdered could ask him, and see for themselves his arrogance - or perhaps in time, his sorrow. They could shout denunciations, they could plead for answers. He would not be permitted to die. He would not be permitted to fight. His followers would possibly rally around him, possibly depart when they see his powerlessness and lack of dignity.
Perhaps we could castrate him, to prevent him breeding in the unlikely event of an escape. Perhaps we could feed him a steady diet of ham and other unclean foods, to indicate Iraqi contempt for him and his false faith. (Not Islam, Saddam's clear betrayal of humanity belies any claim to faith he might make)
Just what my heart tells me,
CZAR
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patio34
This is from http://www.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/17/221559/36
"But that?s what we should do. Not kill Saddam.
Don?t get me wrong. My reptile brain takes over when I ponder how Saddam should be treated for his vicious reign. I think of alligator clips and car batteries, iron maidens, bamboo slivers and nasty drugs injected hourly while the ex-dictator hangs upside down in a room plastered with the photographs of the faces of the people dug from his killing fields. I think of how the surgical nicety of an execution doesn?t measure up as a penalty for his crimes. My reptile brain cries out for massive doses of pain delivered over an extended period. That vengeful part of me wants the man on a rotisserie over hot coals until he is dead, dead, dead.
But what of Saddam?s accomplices? The other infamous members in the deck of cards, now mostly captured? And the thousands of Ba?athists who followed Saddam?s orders to torture, rape and murder for the past three decades?
And what of his recruiters and enablers? The shadowy men who selected Saddam out of the pile to carry out assassinations and provide names for post-coup death lists? The officials at the highest levels of the so-called civilized world who, for reasons of realipolitik helped sculpt the monster and allied themselves with him, gave him more arms than he could use, refused to let others speak ill of him and repeatedly betrayed and obstructed those Iraqis who tried to oust him?
My reptile brain calls for exotically lethal punishments for them as well.
If I were a Shi?a or a Kurd or even a Sunni whom Saddam made into a widow by murdering a husband or sons, I am sure my feelings would be even more ferocious. Believe me, I sympathize.
But that wholly understandable retributive spirit is one of the great fears for the future of a peaceful, democratic Iraq. Allowed to run its course, bloody payback could dig new mass graves in Iraq. Vengeance may sometimes be sweet, but it is always poisonous.
So let?s break the circle. Let?s set an example with Saddam. A trial, most definitely. Permanent incarceration upon conviction, most definitely. But no execution. And, for everybody else involved in the slaughter presided over by Saddam, a truth and reconciliation arrangement like South Africa?s.
One of the world?s biggest problems is that some people think their point of view gives them the right to decide which other people it?s all right to kill. Like those zealots who decided to execute a few thousand people at the Pentagon and the World Trade Center. Like those who already are savoring Saddam?s demise.
....(re executions) Once you get started, where does it end??
