If the you believe the article then people have a choice to choose there association and still be a witness without the idea of loosing all your friends who are told if they associate with you after you have diasociated from an organization that you are not dedicated to then you are shunned.That's not what the watchtower said so you can't have it both ways.
This week's wt paragraph 13 and 15 free will
by poopie 21 Replies latest jw friends
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scratchme1010
Does forcing people to shun other people violate free will?
poopie, why do you keep using the word "forcing"? I'm not defending the WT, but it's inaccurate to describe their control tactics as "forcing".
In any event, no. First, they do not force people to do anything, precisely because otherwise they will be violating the law, which they don;t need to do since they, well, don't force people. They mislead, coerce, misinform, misrepresent, and downright lie, but nope, they do not force people to do anything. The one thing that they make sure is not violating people's free will, and using the tactics that they use, they don't need to.
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poopie
I use the word force because it becomes emotional blackmail. 10 signs of social puppuppeteer
Look it up in psychology today. And by force I mean there are consequences that a person lives with while on one hand they choose to be a Jw and on the other hand if they do not practice shunning they will be shunned that's emotional forceing.
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poopie
So yes it does violate free will.
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smiddy
They mislead, coerce, misinform, misrepresent, and downright lie, but nope, they do not force people to do anything. The one thing that they make sure is not violating people's free will, and using the tactics that they use, they don't need to.
Well said Scratchme1010
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tor1500
Hi,
As of all you know I'm still in...and go to the meetings...I think the flow of this WT article will be to point out not our free will but God's free will to love folks anyway, even if they don't obey him...so the same to us...so we should use our free will to freely (another operative word that will be brought out).
The org. is saying you have free will and use all the scriptures about free will...oh you have the free will to stay or go...if you stay...you must use your free will to freely, there goes that word again, follow the org. aka:Jehovah. And you know the rules...so you freely agree to them...if you go freely, we won't stop you...but if you come back we have the free will to shun you....freely, there is that word again...
You have the free will to dispute the WT and how the scriptures don't line up...but they have the free will to freely tell you, you are using your free will to dispute God...(what they don't know, we are not disputing God but the org.man).
All this new literature and free will and other stuff they say to look like they are warm and fuzzy with the congregation....the public literature, doesn't really show who the WT really is...if the Arc were to look at the public edition compared to the congregation...different info....They are trying to show that the org. don't force folks to do nothing...so if they are further investigated...they will say, see, we don't force them to say....(but in their minds they are saying, we don't force them but we scare'em to death).
I have a long time friend....she knows I'm a witness...loves me...hates the witnesses...she once asked that if a person is DF'd are they allowed to come back to the hall, I said yes, she said she heard that we don't talk to them, I said true again...then she asked do they come back even though no one speaks to them, again, confirmed, then she said/asked...so why do they come back and subject themselves to being ignored....why don't they go somewhere else...I said, many don't think there is any where else to go, so they just suck it up for various reasons...
I'm not here to judge a person of why if person is df'd or da'd comes back to the hall....this is their free will to do so...and that free will is fueled by emotions....so our feelings sometimes make us do things that to the normal person seems odd...sure the person has free will to stay or go, but what about the family attachments are they old enough to be on their own...most likely not, since most parents want their kids to full time preach yet want them out of the house too...Some of the witness parents don't teach their kids how to take care of themselves...
Anyway, this free will article is just more smoke and mirrors for the time that the walls of scrutiny of the internet or authorities close in on the org....
They are saying we have free will but use it the way we tell you to use it....
Tor
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pbrow
poopie,
You cant have free will w/out the consequences. Yes you can stay in if you want. The consequences are not being true to your inner knowledge that the church is a lie. You can leave if you want. The consequences are that your friends and family will most likely not talk to you. You can not like the consequences or you could love them but you have the right and the ability to make the choice.
When you pick up the stick, you pick up both ends of that stick.
pbrow
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pbrow
almost forgot...
tor1500 post reminded me...
IF YOU HAVE SMALL CHILDREN YOU OWE IT TO THEM TO NOT FADE!!!
GTFO
pbrow
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NikL
You put it perfectly Tor.
Nicely done!