Can Jesus "Save" you from Jehovah's Witnesses? (page 2)

ozziepost

Yet I personally feel the best way to help a JW to wake up is to give them a clearer picture of this issue of FAITH VERSES WORKS.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Absolutely! It seems to me that the dubs, and especially the elders who serve on judicial committees, are unable to demonstrate God's love and mercy because they don't consider themselves as sinners. If they did, they'd see that "we're all in the same boat" so to speak and would be more eager to want to show God's mercy. A dub is conditioned to work for his/her salvation as if to earn their acceptance by God and the terrible thing is that they never really know if they're "right" with Him.

A dub is only as good as his last report.

Cheers, Ozzie

barry

Gday Steve ,

I beleive you are absolutely right you are talking about the truths that changed the shape of Europe at the time of the reformation.Barry

jst2laws

Ozzie,

LOL,

A dub is only as good as his last report.

What a laconic way to put it.

Steve

LyinEyes

Steve thank you for this thread. When I left the dubs ,I was still in the mind set of "Jehovah" and felt so lost. I still feel like a lost sheep in some ways , because I stopped my Bible reading because I just lost faith in God,( Jehovah as I thought God to be) , I lost alot of faith in the Bible as well.

With the Xmas season going full swing, and reading church signs, radio commercials about the saving Grace you speak of , of what Jesus is all about , it has me wanting to pick up the Bible again.

I don't see myself anytime soon , being a born again Christain, not sure if I ever will. But I know I need time, and I know that if I have that tiny speck of faith that Jesus was real, that He is the way I have learned about him since leaving the dubs, He will help me along my path.

It takes some longer to get over losing their religion and being so hurt that they lose their faith and are afraid to believe again. I know this is the case with me. But I want to be a believer again, but I dont want to force it, I want it to be real . I know that I will never have all the answers like I thought I had being a dub, but if I can just believe in the saving Grace, be a good person and build some kind of faith system up for myself I can be even happier.

Again this is just the way that I feel, maybe it is not even neccesary to have that feeling that Jesus approves of you thru some miraculous burst of spirituality, I dont know. The way I feel about myself is to take very small steps , read more, ponder things, and in time I think I will be in a good place with the simple knowledge that Jesus/God totally understands what all we are going thru . I think the love that I believe Jesus has for us is so pure and loving that He will see that we were so brainwashed by WT lies that we are afraid at times and just plain not trusting.

Thru this time that I have been out of the WT, I have always felt that I still had some kind of spark of belief in Jesus, even if it is just a mustard grain......lol.

Steve, your wife, Joy2Bfree, gave me the best advice when I first came on this board,,,,,she told me to give myself some time , if I didnt want to read the Bible dont force myself, get to know myself.

That has been my saving grace , honestly her words touched me to the heart and I have done as she said. It was hard to not fret over ...is there a God? will there be an Armeggedon, so many of the universal questions of life and God. I thought I had to find all the answers out ASAP,,,,,,Joy's words to me really made me understand that I have time to get to where I need to be for myself and that when I am ready.. then proceed. Please give her my love for that, I tell her from time to time because it saved my life,,,,,,,,, it saved my sanity . Now when I see a newbie come on here feeling like I did, I pass on Joy's words to them and I always tell them it was her that told me those wise words.

Again thanks Steve, for this topic , I know not everyone here on this board are in the same place in healing from JW. Some don't believe in God at all and are pretty firm in their ideas about that. I don't judge anyone for their beliefs anymore, I really never did even as a dub. Some of us are wanting to believe,,,,maybe because all of our lives we were believers and we feel a void. Maybe some of us really are believers and just need to find our way .

Enishi

The Gospels' Jesus was my way out of JWs. And afterwards he was tactful enough to vanish in the cloud of myth, tradition and literary history, instead of imposing himself as another guru. So I'll always keep a good memory of him.

Something very similar happened to me as well. Reading the Gospels by themselves, with a fresh eye, without any of the WTS's interpretation, really helped me. I wonder just how many witnesses actually read the Gospels, rather than always going over the society's publications and the Old Testament.

jst2laws

(((((((LyingEyes))))))

You will find your way. Sometimes we take to many steps on the stairs at a time and we stumble and get hurt. I'm glad you are taking it slow.

I'll tell Joy to check the thread so she doesn't miss your message.

Steve

BTW, Say hello to WildT

Joyzabel

((((((((Dede)))))))

you are too kind. "I pass on Joy's words to them and I always tell them it was her that told me those wise words." You are the one who helped your own sanity. You were looking and found what you needed.

It seems like many, many years since we first met. I'm so happy for each and everyone who is able to escape from the WTBTS and work out their own journeys. Life is so much more enjoyable now and that is hard to explain to JWs who don't want to hear.

To all lurkers. It really does help to start slow with finding out what the bible says, compared to what we were taught as JWs. Read the book of Galations and Romans like a novel. Don't pick it apart and look for what the WTBTS says about each verse. After the "house of cards fall" then learn who you are and take time to go forward. We are not in such a hurry anymore to do things to be sure to qualify for the new system. So take your time. Learn to love life. Whatever anyone ends up believing is their own choice. Learn to be tolerant of others. Learn to love, really love.

Hugs,

j2bf

ros

Jst2laws:

I often get requests like that from people who have never been JWs, wanting me to tell them how to prove Jehovah's Witnesses wrong, and how to help JWs get the "real Jesus."

I was "born again" twice--in both Baptist (10 years old) and Church of Christ (14 years old) denominations. I also had considerable exposure to charasmatic hell-fire-preaching religion in attending revival meetings of traveling evangelists (shades of Elmer Gantry--what we had before televangelism) when my Christian Science grandmother would visit for the summers. This was prior to my becoming a JW at the age of 18, independent of the rest of my family. Between the ages of 14 and 18, I pondered my beliefs apart from the Bible, and then when I was exposed to the teachings of the Watchtower, I studied the initial doctrines of hellfire and soul quite deeply--as I think we who were converts were much more inclined to do than people raised in the religion. After all, we were having to denounce what we had always been taught, so 'proof' was more crucial than blind acceptance. (Trinity was not the big issue in that time as it is now--hell-fire and "born again" were the biggees.) Now it's Trinity and "not by works".

Here's my perspective (which is just my opinion): There is no such thing as "unconditional love". The scriptures do not teach it imo. What there is, is unconditional forgiveness (grace) IF we acknowledge our wrong/bad/sin (confession) and repent. The reason it is grace is because the "wages of sin is death" and we have all sinned. But because of 'grace' we have the opportunity to be judged for our goodness rather than our wrongs IF we are repentant. That is the gift.

As for works, I compare it this way: We were given the gift of life (human life) at birth. We did not earn it. But it will not survive unless we eat and have shelter. And to have food and shelter we must work. Works did not give us life. Money did not buy life. It was a free gift. But life without works will die. When I think of it that way, it is easy to understand "faith without works is dead." Then, go to Gateway.com and look up every occurrence of "works" in the King James Bible (because other versions use other terms like "deeds", "actions", "what they have done", etc., depending on the version). What I found is that there are more instances of obligation for Christian to do good works by far than there is implying that 'doing' good is not necessary. The difference is what is defined as "good works". Helping the needy is right up there at the top. Love = charity.

The falicy of the Watchtower is they teach that spreading lies is good works. The more time you spend spreading their lies, instead of helping the needy, the more good works you're doing. More, more, more . . . or you will die. Lies! :-)

~Ros

bebu

I like your analogies, Ros. Esp. about eating--very clear.

Personally, I do believe in unconditional love, but I think we might misunderstand what this means. (I have, anyway.) I think the practical application of unconditional love for the human condition is the gift of unconditional grace. (Am I splitting hairs? Sorry. I'm no theologian. )

What irony in the title of this thread.

Thanks for your posts, Steve!

bebu

ozziepost

To all lurkers. It really does help to start slow with finding out what the bible says, compared to what we were taught as JWs. Read the book of Galations and Romans like a novel. Don't pick it apart and look for what the WTBTS says about each verse.

How much I do agree with you, Joy! Mrs Ozzie and I found that we could actually enjoy reading it. we found, too, that we were coming across points and events in context. This is quite different to the Borg delivery of the scriptures where they pick a verse here and compare it with a verse there. So many, many sscriptures are taken out of context in the WTS' publications.

BTW what an enjoyable, positive thread this is! Wonderful! Thanks for starting it, Steve.

Cheers, Ozzie

Can Jesus "Save" you from Jehovah's Witnesses?

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