What Is God Doing? (page 7)

rem

ThiChi,

That's fine. I'm not the one with anything to prove.

rem

Satanus

Tichi

WHat is your proof that hardly anyone has been contacted by God?

I concluded that only a few have experienced god because of talking w people, reading this site, reading books and mags, etc.

The evidence proves otherwise.

Well, you can always share it, if you want. But if you do, then it will be scrutinised.

SS

ThiChi

Hammond J. et al, 'New Methods in RE: An Experiential Approach', Oliver & Boyd, Essex, 1990

A poll conducted in 1985 suggested that 15,000,000 Britons would say that at least once or twice in their lives they have been aware of, or have been influenced by, a presence or power. A further survey in 1986 suggests that nearly half of the UK population have had a transcendental experience with nearly 80% of people claiming this was an experience of God. From these positive respondents over half never attended a place of worship and many have never told anyone of their experiences. Many felt that if they did tell anyone they would be thought of as mad or stupid. However, this stereotype is not reinforced by the poll result which showed that those who did report their experiences were, 'better educated, happier and better balanced mentally than those who did not report them' (Hammond p.205).

Yerusalyim

If God's existence could be proven "scientifically" would God be God? God exists outside of time and space...which are the only things science can measure...concretes...science can not disprove God's existence either.

From my perspective atheism takes much more "faith" than belief in God. That all this could come about by random chance is beyond belief to me. If we landed on Mars and there found a rolex watch...perfectly keeping time...that was "created" by random chance...I might be able to accept that the universe in all it's complexity (much more complex than a watch) came to be by accident.

If I'm wrong...I'll never know...if you're wrong...you'll have an eternity to acknowledge thus.

ThiChi

Yer, I agree, however, one day we just may know....

peacefulpete

The fact that millions due to social conditioning interpret certain unfamiliar brain activity as otherworldly is not a case for the correctness of that conclusion. Any claim to have had a unique experience that validates religious opinion is simple special pleading. "I can't prove it, but if you had the feelings I have you too would KNOW there is a God!" Every religious tenet regardless of it's preposterousness is defended with similar logic.

People who consider the naturalistic explanation for life as a matter of religionlike faith, do so because of not understanding the explanation(so neither must anyone else) and therefore assume those who accept that explanation must be unreasonable. This lack of understanding, because it serves them, appears to be a positive proof in itself. Understanding the skeptical mind requires a mental paradigm shift that doesn't occur without effort. Rational analysis and objectivity must consciously supercede gut feelings and intuition. Having evolved brains that survived for millions of years largely using gut feelings and quick judgement, these skills do not come easily or naturally. In only the last few thousands of years have these intellectual skills shown their value. In effect we are in some ways training our minds to think counterintuitively, so as to be technically correct. By reason that this method of study has proven it's worth by the advancement of knowledge in the last few thousand years and especially so in recent centuries, to that extent, and for that reason, I have confidence it is the best approach to learning. If you call that faith then your definition is different than mine.

Satanus

Tichi

That is an interesting study. I had no idea it was so high. I wonder if other studies would show figures as high. Maybe the british are god's chosen people

It's interesting that experiences were not necesarily connected to religion. Anyways, i went to the link at amazon, but your quote wasn't found there. It did point to a handbook that ...

aims to go beyond an examination of the public face of religion and to show a way to begin to approach the inner life of the great spiritual traditions we share in our society. The book intends to allow pupils the opportunity to reflect and learn through their own experience.

I agree w this.

Yeru

Veiled threats about god have no affect on me. I have had god experience I don't need faith.

PP

I admit that spiritual experience is next to impossible to use as proof, scientifically. My experiences prove almost nothing religiously, except possibly life after death, and a higher spiritual nature. Again, i could not prove either of those premises.

The usefulness of intuition compared to reason would make for an interesting discussion. I read that some top scientists have operated from intuition, ie, they had hunches about something, then did experiments to test them. Until a hunch was confirmed through lab results, they would not be written about in scientific papers.

You may be reacting against suppressive religion and superstition. The classical greek philosophers used intuition and, to an extent tested them w experiments and dialectic. Current science may be going too far the other way. Time will tell.

SS

rem

:The classical greek philosophers used intuition and, to an extent tested them w experiments and dialectic. Current science may be going too far the other way. Time will tell.

"Aristotle maintained that women have fewer teeth than men; although he was twice married, it never occured to him to verify this statement by examining his wives' mouths." Bertrand Russell

(I know you said "to an extent" but I just couldn't help myself) :)

rem

peacefulpete

In the lab intuition is invaluable for motivation but observation establishes factualness.

What Is God Doing?

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