Just a little about me: I live in the usa on the west coast, I am currently going to college, ( i know a lot of brothers dont do this but i have some reasons). I am curious if any other Brothers or Sisters are in college, and how everybody feels about school?
Education
by jelly 17 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Bodhisattva
Jelly -
Are you going to school full-time? Are you living at school or at home? I know of one young brother who is going to a respected university full-time and living on campus, far from home. When he returns to his home congregation in the summers, he gets assignments on the Theocratic Ministry School. In my opinion he's a fine example. I know he gets some time in each month, I don't know if he's on the TMS at the congregation near the school. If not, I don't fault him.
I am attending classes at night so that I can make a better living. I have a great job right now for my level of education, but getting into my current job was not something I could have exoected. Without a good education the types of job I was getting only allowed me to support myself by going deeply into debt.
Way back when I was in high school I had college opportunities staring me in the face, even though I did not pursue any scholarships. Sadly I graduated before the effective college ban was lifted, and I am frankly paying for it now.
How many well-meaning people - not just guidance counselors, but teachers who took a personal interest - did I rebuke because of the evils of college? What good did it do my self-esteem to assume that if I were exposed to bad influences, I would give in without a struggle, despite my strength of character?
What is more frustrating is that, just a few weeks after one elder mentioned off-hand to me that the college ban had done much damage, another positively told me that there was no such ban when I was finishing school! Further, because I wasn't planning to go to college, my parents took some steps that they have regretted, and I can't help but think that things would have gone much better had I been planning to go to college.
40+ hours of work, night classes, meetings and service - I have little time for socializing or relaxing. I won't earn a degree anytime soon, but my current company does take notice of my improving skills and knowledge and within a couple years I might be able to get a better job without relying on the fortunate circumstances that resulted in my present position. Friends, unless you know firsthand what it's like starting out these days - as opposed to starting out 20 or 40 years ago - please don't criticize young people who choose to go to college. The ban is ended; let's end the stigma.
Your brother,
Bodhisattva -
claudia
Bodishatva, im happy for you, what are you studying?
-
jelly
Hello Bod, thanks for the reply. Some semesters I go full time some part time ( i usually take between 9-12 units). I live at home and I work full time. The school schedule isnt to difficult because I work a compressed work week, which is made up of 12 hour shifts 3 or 4 days a week. I acutually have a pretty good job but it is demanding and due to health issues, (joint problems) I am not sure how many years I will be able to continue working there. When I was coming into the truth I was attending college and the only problem my family had with me being in the truth was the fact that I stopped going to college. The economy 20 years ago was much different than today, today a high school education dosnt really prepare you for any jobs that you can support a family with. There never was a ban on college it was just discourged, as a matter of fact one of the elders in my last kingdom hall had went to college because his father (who wasn't) in the truth wanted him to, and things worked out fine for him. Also in the last awake there was a fine experience of a man that came into the truth, finished law school and has been helping the society in legal cases since the 40's. I think the proper way to see education is a way to get the skills necessary to earn a living, not as a way to get rich, or find some form of worldly enlignment. Well I hope i didnt ramble to much but I am writing this post late at night, hope to hear from you agian.
-
Mikey
Brothers,
I enjoyed reading all the response to this important question. I am a law student on the East Coast and a recent college graduate, so I can completely understand what Bodisattva means when s/he says, "end the stigma." I have been in school for five years now, and if I had a nickel for every time someone encouraged me to drop out, I'd be a dot-com billionaire. Some were subtle and encouraging, but most were heavy-handed and condescending..."drop out, or else you're not a real Witness." Besides being puzzled as to what a "real" Witness was (if it isn't someone who loves Jehovah, follows our principles, is regular in service and the meetings, then I'm lost as to how to please our God) I was a little shocked at how emotional some of the older ones became when I told them I was going to college, and then their absolute furor at hearing I was going to graduate school.
I guess higher education was never truly an "option" for me. It was the only "option." My father and mother are both highly-educated professionals and my father, in addition to being a successful physician, has been an elder for eleven years. I just never perceived any inconsistency between being educated and being a Witness.
There is no contradiction. I encourage everyone to get an education, become independent, learn something, and to not fear having a career. If you truly love Jehovah, then you will achieve and maintain balance in your school-work, your associations, and for the rest of your life. Hold it down, and don't worry about what the brothers and sisters think, because "not as the way man thinks is the way God thinks." Let him be your judge.
Mikey
-
Hume
I'm going back to school now. It's hard tying to make a living in this old system without an education. I am divorced now. My wife left the truth and me to go have "fun". So now at 40, I'm supporting myself and my kids and going to night classes. Yes I do miss some meetings. and my service time is lower than I would like but I really have no other options right now. I did go to a university right after high school. But I got so much flack from the congregation elders about it that I dropped out after the first year. They even had the circut overseer visit with me, he encouraged me to quit school and pioneer. So I did. I met a pioneer sister and we got married a year later. I don't regret my time serving Jehovah. But I wish that I had been more practical about things. I was so sure that the end was comming that I never thought I would turn 40 in this system. I guess I should have taken that scripture more seriously about no one knows the day and hour. Anyway I still get pressure from an elder in my congregation. He has told me that I need to rely more on Jehovah and less on myself. But I look at him and he came into the truth after he got his education. He has a comfortable retirement now. I know I will be working till this system ends or I die, which ever comes first. At least there are a couple of elders who have been more supportive. But I have been treated differently since I had to step down from several service privalages. Why is it when things are so tough in life you seem to get the least help? Is that Satan? I really just feel worthless now that I have to focus on providing for my family. Maybe I should change congregations.
-
Bodhisattva
Wow. When I made my post I figured I would be maligned as bitter. Instead I feel less alone in my frustration after seeing all these constructive comments.
Claudia, I'm majoring in Computer Science. Thank you for asking. It is something that fits me, and something that will allow me to choose a job make where I can make a living with reasonable work hours. (I could also choose a job with insane hours, but with education one has choices). I am trying to take 6 credits per semester, after working normal business hours.
Mikey, I deeply sympathize with you. 'Let God be your judge' - amen! I think that it is almost something cultural. Speaking frankly among adults, it is my observation that in the Jewish culture education is valued, but that among African-Americans this has not generally been the case. Of course stereotypes don't hold; that's the point. Even though in our "culture" as Jehovah's Witnesses, there is a general and long-lived bias against higher education, if a few of us endure the hardships, the outcome will be that more are open to getting, and letting their children get, the education they need. We don't know when the system will end, but in the meantime a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Mikey, you well know that those looking down on you owe many of their freedoms to lawyers who have struggled to establish and defend them.
Hume, we all should have taken the scripture more seriously about not knowing the day or the hour, but we have no reason to blame ourselves. From one point of view, mere humans ran ahead and, holding themselves up as Prophets, told us that it was "Jehovah's promise" to end this system before the passing away of a literal, chronological generation. From another point of view, it is merely another test of endurance that our God has allowed, knowing that it will be put out of mind by the pleasure of a perfect Kingdom, like birth pangs by a mother's joy. You are working hard to provide for your family, so have no doubt that you are a Christian. No one can judge you; it is wrong for them to tell you to test Jehovah by abandoning your practical course and hoping something better drops in your lap. As far as changing congregations, I can't fault you and I don't think that you are quick to take offense. But before you decide to change, give yourself permission to be proud of the hard work and good things you are doing. As to privileges, no one ever complained that their literature servant didn't show them enough love when they were growing up; the Christian congregation is built on strong families where loving parents sacrifice for the good of their children.
Jelly, I'm impressed that you find the strength to take so many classes. It goes without saying that you must be exhausted after the long workdays. I need to differ gently with you when you say that there was never a ban on college; it was as real as if it were explicitly in writing. I remember a brother like the one you know being interviewed at a convention - it was made clear that there was no way he would have gone to college except that his unbelieving father forced him. And I remember being smug that I would never use such a loophole, but had instead convinced my unbelieving father that I could make a decent living without college. I had no basis to know that, and I was wrong. But I - we - don't deserve blame for doing what we sincerely thought was the right thing then, any more than we should be judged for making the right choice now.
Jelly, I just realized that none of us have really addressed your question about "how everybody feels about school." I love it. I was a good student in high school and earlier, but I have gained more appreciation for knowledge now that I am working with well-educated people. Learning is growing; there is nothing like it to expand one's perception. Yes, it is a means to a practical end, but our Creator gave us the capacity to enjoy life, and there is no reason to cheapen this gift of life we have by insisting that all our pursuits be onerous and painful until the end of this system. If we can find some joy now, even while hoping for that better realm, I imagine we will make better subjects of it.
With warm Christian love,
Bodhisattva -
jelly
Hi bod,
I also love school because i love to learn, even when i wasnt in college i was an avid reader. I am a mis major (managment information science) so your major and mine have some similarities. My point was that going to college was never somthing you could get disfellowshiped for, so if you wanted to go they couldnt stop you, in that sence there was never a ban, but the pressure to not go was, and still to lesser extent, great. -
Mikey
Brothers and Sisters,
I must echo Bodisattva's pleasant surprise at the response to such a thread. I have appreciated all of your comments and expressions, especially for their insight and honesty (Bodisattva - special shout-out to your comments, so true to my experience). It takes a lot to express one's regrets and fears about an issue like this.
But I really want to respond to Hume's post. I truly sympathize with your struggle and your situation, and I admire what you are doing. Raising a family and working full-time are hard enough in this nightmarish system of things, but you are struggling also to acquire an education to improve your family's situation. I feel you, my brother. Keep on doing what you are doing.
It can seem like when you need your brothers the most, they let you down. They are men; they fail. Jehovah will not. Ask him for strength and the power beyond what is normal and he will give it to you, perhaps in ways that are unknown to you now.
Your congregation sounds a lot like mine over the past few years. I must be honest, making meetings gets tough when you're juggling school and work. It was tough for me. Some brothers brow-beat me and made me feel profoundly unwelcome. They scolded me, told me I was a "glory-seeker," "greedy," and "selfish," even in the presence of other brothers and sisters. But the compassionate brothers, one in particular, my presiding overseer, alwasy encouraged me to finish school AND to make the meetings. When he saw me walk in the door, he would give me a hug and his patented ear-to-ear smile and call me "son" and tell me that he was happy to see me. That made it easier.
Changing congregations may shift the problem to a new place, but brothers are brothers are brothers. Some will support, some won't. Find those who do, and let them encourage you. Hume, Jehovah doesn't require any specific number of hours per month in service or a minimum number of meetings, but only YOUR relative best in "seeking first the Kingdom" (Mt 6:33). Only you know what that means in the context of your family life. So, do that, and don't give up on achieving balance. Some weeks the scale will tip to one side, some weeks the other. Just make sure you seek him first, and HE promises, through his son, to "add all these other things to you." Hold it down, Hume. And if all else fails, remember that there are people out there who understand, and we are pulling for you, Brother! That's a provision too.
Your Brother and Fellow Student,
Mikey -
Seven
Hello everyone,
Reading your posts caused me to playback my university years over and over in my mind. I almost didn't post a reply...wanting to bury forever & forget those feelings of guilt I had just being there.
Like Mikey, higher education was the "only" option in my family. I graduated six years ago. I have a dream career and everything that goes along with it. Jehovah wants us all to find enjoyment and become skilled in the work we do and to share the benefits of our labor with others. It's not only a matter of common sense, it's a matter of survival.
I leave you with my favorite scripture on the subject:
Eccl. 3:13, 22 "Every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God. And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion."
Just tough it out...all of you, and do not become discouraged. Know that there are many who are watching you and will follow in your footsteps.
7of9