Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-4-04 WT Study

by blondie 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  blondie

  I just wanted to add one more group of potential "converts" and baptismal candidates: Adults who had been raised in JW families, rebelled young and self-destructed their lives. Seems at about 30, they end up with a couple of kids and at that age when they are trying to get "responsible." Ripe for picking by the JW vultures. In the last several years, nearly all the "new" baptismal candidates seem to come from this group.

  Good point, Odrade. I would consider them a subset of the children of JWs. But few results from all the "cold calls" JWs make. A salesman told me the hardest sale to make was to pickup the phone and just call someone new to the product. He was required to make 15 cold calls a day to be paid his salary. He said that he would call numbers he knew were disconnected, or that the people would be gone, just to make his quota. Sound familiar?

  Very funny, Elsewhere,

  So much for the GB montra: "Do not go beyond what is written"

  Oh wait, I'm sorry, they're not talking about the bible... they're talking about the Watchtower.

  Just don?t be more funny than I am.

  Mysterious, is this permanent?

  You're darn right. I won't even hear the WT Study!

  I actually hated the Public Talk the worst. I usually played anagrams with the big words in the WT.

  Thanks drawcad_1,

  keep up the posts. I love them. very thought provoking.

  Yes, attendance is down. One brother made an interesting observation too, while the attendance may be about the same as the number of publishers, ½ the people are from other congregations. Eerie!

  Room 215,

  I noticed that too when I lived by the Farm and there were 35 to 40 Bethelites attending a congregation of 80 publishers. Meetings on Sunday during the summer were only about 30 strong. We had to all move up to the front and it felt like a book study. Some sisters would not

  I don't think it's fully appreciated by the people who write this stuff that it's an attitude on full display at headquarters. With very few exceptions, the GB and senior staffers are notorious field service slackers, with much of the Bethel family all too eager to invoke ``Bethel work assignments" as excuses to opt out of weekend witnessing or even meeting attendance

  come because their husbands had to work and they were afraid to drive 30 miles. Of course, they could drive 60 miles into NJ to shop all day.

  Min, you make me smile.

  And all this because Apollos was APPARENTLY raised in Alexandria, the capital of higher learning!!!!!! This whole article is because of a supposition!

  Will Power,

  Appearing here after your wonderful experience. Much more interesting that the dry, contrived "renactments" the WTS trots out now.

  When was the last time "proving Jesus was the Christ" was the theme of a JW's study.

  That is because they are spending all their time proving he isn?t God. And worse yet, talking about being Jehovah?s Witnesses to the point that people don?t think JWs are Christians. They will have to learn to say "I am a member of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah?s Witnesses."

  NewYork44M,

  I can remember my first visit to NYC and touring Bethel in 1971. I was down by Grand Central Station and say an old sister holding up the magazines, not saying a word. Occasionally, someone would hand her money and take the magazines. I learned that she had been standing there for over 40 years. This sister maybe?

  km 5/73 p. 1 Serving with a Sense of Urgency!

  One 87-year-old pioneer sister in New York State regularly places 1,500 magazines a month by offering them on the street.

  Maverick, my man,

  I just have to shake my head at this promo to push the publications!

  The publications must be backing up. The WTS has been noting that people get more magazines then they place. A wasting of WTS resources, bad publisher.

  km 10/91 p. 8 Presenting the Good News?By Using Publications Wisely

  Avoid Waste: To be of real benefit, our literature must get into the hands of truth seekers, that is, those who are genuinely interested in our message and work. (Matt. 10:11) We should therefore avoid giving away literature indiscriminately to those who have not manifested real appreciation for the Bible?s message. Waste can also occur if we allow magazines, books, or other literature to pile up at home.

  Since the magazines are dated, we have a limited period of time to offer them as current issues. So a concerted effort on our part is needed to get out in the ministry and make these magazines available to interested ones. If we find that our magazines still tend to accumulate, perhaps it would be good to adjust our schedule to spend more time in magazine work. Or if this cannot reasonably be done, we should adjust our order

  Blondie (glad the holidays are over at work)
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  Mysterious

  Mysterious, is this permanent?

  You're darn right. I won't even hear the WT Study!

  Yes, yes it is. And playing anagrams in your WT you should be ashamed. Mom was always aghast if I had doodles in the margins..though I usally made those during our pre-study and studiously played cover them with your hand when the mic person walks by..
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  Gopher

  Thanks for another annotated "Botchtower" study, Blondie!!
  

  The mantra of "do more, do more" that they're chanting in this article will again fall on deaf ears. It all sounds good at the meeting, but to make actual changes -- well you don't really HAVE to do those to stay "in the truth". Maybe some who are trying to keep up appearances will try one of these suggestions once or twice, and then fall back into the same old pattern.

  That man who said that the Family Life book saved his marriage---and not the Bible. He sounds like a perfect candidate to become an organization-follower. I wonder what his wife thought, now that the Family Life book gave him (so he thought) Bible-based authority to dominate over her.

  And again, it shows what the JW's are preaching -- their ideas and not the Bible.

  The Watchtower Society is pushing "techniques" on how to preach. If they ever had interesting ideas (like the 1975 scare or the threat of nuclear war in the early 80's) maybe people would be attracted to them based on ideas, and not on "techniques". If the ideas are no good, no technique will ever bring in "disciples" to follow the organization.
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  blondie

  Hey Gopher, are you rooting for the Packers? How's that baby and YoursChelbie and the girls doing?

  I loved this term "Botchtower."!
  

  The mantra of "do more, do more" that they're chanting in this article will again fall on deaf ears.

  Yes, I was part of the "tuned out" generation.

  It all sounds good at the meeting, but to make actual changes -- well you don't really HAVE to do those to stay "in the truth"

  Appearance is everything.

  Maybe some who are trying to keep up appearances will try one of these suggestions once or twice, and then fall back into the same old pattern.

  I remember one Thursday night program where there were 3 parts to encourage more field service on Sunday. Three (3) elders all enthusiastic. On Sunday who was there, me, myself and I. I wondered what happened between Thursday and Sunday to turn off their enthusiasm.

  The Watchtower Society is pushing "techniques" on how to preach.

  Just like Maverick says its a sales meeting. Blondie
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  jgnat

  Blondie, I appreciate your insider's view of preaching, WT style. It seems to me the emphasis on time, not fruit, sucks all the vigour out of the work.

  ....and what ?accurate knowledge? did Priscilla and Aquila teach? My study bible says, ?Apollos did not know about Jesus? life, crucifixion, and resurrection. Nor did he know about the coming of the Holy Spirit. Priscilla and Aquila explained the way of salvation to him.?

  What is the ?accurate knowledge? the WTBTS teaches? The core teachings of the WTBTS are harder to nail down because NONE of their teachings are open for interpretation; from blood transfusions to the torture stake. Also, many of their teachings are anti-religion - that is - the force of their message is how they are AGAINST the mainstream religions, not what they STAND FOR.

  Did Priscilla and Aquila explain to Apollos that his hope was earthly? Did they teach him about the errors of the Catholic Church? Did they explain why the Faithful and Discreet Slave?s teachings was trustworthy meat? Did they give the date for Jesus? return? Did they instruct Apollos to shave his beard and buy a tie? Did they drop of a weekly magazine for further study?

  Oh. Right. Apollos might actually have had a heavenly hope according to WT doctrine. And, yeah, the Catholic Church did not yet exist. Who was the ?Slave? during the first century? Did Paul obtain his writings from the brothers in Jerusalem, or did he compose his letters himself? I presume Priscilla and Aquila avoided setting the date for Christ?s return (Matthew 24:36). The clean-shaven face is a modern affectation. The first tie had made it?s appearance amongst Roman senators, but I doubt it was a distinctive mark for door-to-door Christians in the first century. The magazine is a modern invention as well.

  So what ?accurate knowledge? did Priscilla and Aquila teach? How different is that knowledge from the core teachings of Christian denominations today?
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  Pistoff

  GREAT job blondie.

  And what a boost to their spirituality such association with Paul afforded them!

  Yep; soon they too would not allow women to teach, would scold women for their sexual impulses, red pencil the list of widows to find the "deserving" ones and discuss only men's qualifications for leadership roles. Was this because their bad behavior stood out and needed to be addressed?

  And when Paul says become imitators of me even as I am of Christ, I take a few steps backward. After all, Jesus considered women important and equal to men; Paul did not. Jesus said that all of the law was summed up in two laws; Paul made lists for the congregations and invented casting out those who flagrantly violated the standards of morality and decency in the congregation; this one standard of course, has been greatly expanded by the WT to include whistle blowing (causing divisions) slander (telling the police about your abusive parents) and my favorite, apostasy (believing that God *just might NOT* destroy all non witnesses at Armageddon).

  What a useless article, filled with "evidently" and "apparently". I try to make a few sundays, but who can tolerate writing this insipid and insulting?

  CLOSED CIRCUIT TO THE BETHEL LURKERS: If you want anyone to stay in this plastic Jesus religion, hire someone to ghost write that has a way with words. As writers YOU SUCK.
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  Pistoff

  I know I am on a rant today but here is more of our beloved Paul:

  Paul's words:

  15

  By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace; 16 and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.

  4

  So, my brothers, YOU also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ, that YOU might become another?s, the one?s who was raised up from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in accord with the flesh, the sinful passions that were excited by the Law were at work in our members that we should bring forth fruit to death. 6 But now we have been discharged from the Law, because we have died to that by which we were being held fast, that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit, and not in the old sense by the written code.

  oops, Paul's other words:

  3

  What, then, is the superiority of the Jew, or what is the benefit of the circumcision? 2 A great deal in every way. First of all, because they were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God. 3 What, then, [is the case]? If some did not express faith, will their lack of faith perhaps make the faithfulness of God without effect?

  Paul's actions (the champion of the new system and the death of the Law:)

  When Paul61 had greeted them, he began to explain62 in detail63 what God64 had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 21:20 When they heard this, they praised65 God. Then they said to him, ?You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews66 there are who have believed, and they are all ardent observers67 of the law.68 21:21 They have been informed about you?that you teach all the Jews now living69 among the Gentiles to abandon70 Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children71 or live72 according to our customs. 21:22 What then should we do? They will no doubt73 hear that you have come. 21:23 So do what74 we tell you: We have four men75 who have taken76 a vow;77 21:24 take them and purify78 yourself along with them and pay their expenses,79 so that they may have their heads shaved.80 Then81 everyone will know there is nothing in what they have been told82 about you, but that you yourself live in conformity with83 the law.84 21:25 But regarding the Gentiles who have believed, we have written a letter, having decided85 that they should avoid86 meat that has been sacrificed to idols87 and blood and what has been strangled88 and sexual immorality.? 21:26 Then Paul took the men the next day,89 and after he had purified himself90 along with them, he went to the temple and gave notice91 of the completion of the days of purification,92 when93 the sacrifice would be offered for each94 of them.

  Paul's words made much of his belief in Jesus; when it came time to stand up to the elders in Jerusalem and tell them that it was time to abandon the old ways, he sent a mixed message: he goes to the TEMPLE, not a christian meeting place, and participates in the Jewish purification rite. It does not help him avoid the wrath of the jews though; they still want to kill him.

  Is this the Paul who says to imitate him as he imitated Christ?? Did Jesus ever go along with the religious leaders?

  I appreciate Paul and his letters too; trouble is, the WT dogma paints Paul so white and clean that we can't see the political pressures that he caved in to; we are not able to see the subleties in the book of Acts.

  PERHAPS it is because we would then see that these Jerusalem elders are the same ones who made the much vaunted DECREE against blood, another case of giving in to tradition.
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  blondie

  Wow, jgnat and pistoff.

  jgnat, yes, poor Apollos. He somehow missed the death of Jesus and its significance. Was he in Alexandria when it happened? How could that be when all good Jews would have traveled to Jerusalem for the Passover. I always wondered about Apollos' gap in knowledge., why he had not been there to witness the death and resurrection of Christ, to hear Peter's speech to the crowd.

  Pistoff,

  You are living up to your username. Yes, Paul's words are hard to accept in view of Jesus' treatment of women. You can take the man out of the Pharisees but not the Pharisee out of the man. It makes you wonder if he remembered Deborah, Abigail, Jael, Huldah, and numerous others? As to making lists, the Pharisees authored the Talmud which became larger than the Torah (only 600 laws). We see the Pharisee coming out in Paul.

  Did Paul give in to the religious leaders; yes, on at least two glaring occasions.

  Acts 21:20-26

  After hearing this they began to glorify God, and they said to him: "You behold, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews; and they are all zealous for the Law. 21 But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs. 22 What, then, is to be done about it? In any case they are going to hear you have arrived. 23 Therefore do this which we tell you: We have four men with a vow upon themselves. 24 Take these men along and cleanse yourself ceremonially with them and take care of their expenses, that they may have their heads shaved. And so everybody will know that there is nothing to the rumors they were told about you, but that you are walking orderly, you yourself also keeping the Law. 25 As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent out, rendering our decision that they should keep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication." 26 Then Paul took the men along the next day and cleansed himself ceremonially with them and went into the temple, to give notice of the days to be fulfilled for the ceremonial cleansing, until the offering should be presented for each one of them.

  Acts 16:1-3

  So he arrived at Der´be and also at Lys´tra. And, look! a certain disciple was there by the name of Timothy, the son of a believing Jewish woman but of a Greek father, 2 and he was well reported on by the brothers in Lys´tra and I·co´ni·um. 3 Paul expressed the desire for this man to go out with him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews that were in those places, for one and all knew that his father was a Greek.

  Galatians 2:3

  Nevertheless, not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, although he was a Greek

  There are no more independent thinkers left, or what passed for them, in the Borg. They have either died or been assimilated. So the writers are reduced to cutting and pasting past articles. I discovered how bad this technique when I received my first WT-CD and started searching. Some sentences were repeated several places over the years.

  Be prepared for an article coming up that highlights the word "SOON" another favorite.

  Blondie
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  blondie

  BTTT
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  fjtoth

  I actually hated the Public Talk the worst. I usually played anagrams with the big words in the WT.

  Why, oh WHY, didn't I think of something like that? Instead, I sometimes tho't I was going to lose my vision from forcing my eyes to stay open, or that my brain was going to go completely dead! I'd rather dig ditches for an hour with pick and shovel than sit through the mindless drudgery of listening to a public talk at a KH, and I would have dug for an entire weekend to get out of attending some of those repeatedly boring circuit and district assemblies.