Hidden Images; last time.

by Hunyadi 66 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  Hunyadi

  Thanks again to all those who responded with an open mind to my postings regarding hidden images in the WT publications, but wow, I have heard from some pretty forceful personalities who are apparently still pissed off about getting duped by the WTBTS. So many flames, so many flamers . . . Calm down, get some pot, get some beer, get some therapy, but please get over it and yourselves. Some of you who responded are not just arrogant and angry, but also insulting. Is it because you think I might "still believe"? Your hatred makes me want to vomit. I probably know some of you from the "evil slave" picket lines I use to see outside the District Conventions with your scowling faces and your fake Watchtowers.

  For Dave; thanks for the subliminal 1A course. I think I made it clear on my site what kind of subliminal imagery I was talking about, cuz um, it's good to be specific, and you are not the first angry woman to tell me that I am focussing on the wrong issues. For goodness sake, will someone tell me, please, in your own little angry way if you must, what the real issues are about the WTBTS, and what was it you did not know going into the baptismal pool that you found out after the fact? Some of you knew you were not suppose to cheat on your wifes, some of you knew you should not drink heavily or do drugs . . . or smoke. You knew what the Society expected of you, so don't be pissed off cuz you listened to their bullshit and they wouldn't listen to yours . . . Dave.

  Me? I was DF'd for smoking, and was relieved, 14 years ago, when I walked out of the committeeeee meeting a free man. The story of my EXODUS is a tragic and true epoch where people actaully died. I will not go into it cuz it bores the hell out of even me by now . . . but I never resented the elders for doing their job, or for being put out of the organization for smoking, nor did I get mad at the GB for their rules. *Some* if not *alot* of the scriptural viewpoints published in the WT pubs appear to be the truth only if it does serve only their kooky purposes. Hell, even Satan knows the truth and has no problem saying it when it serves his purpose.

  And can you, Dave, supposedly a working artist, who the WTBTS consulted with for their illustrations, can you really look at that art in the publications and say that there are no hidden images? You are [edited] and most likely a schill sitting at Bethel monitoring this board for the purpose of discrediting a credible claim. I have heard the thing about the offset printing and anomalies back in the 70's and early 80's, and while that might be so, I do believe the WTBTS has gone digital. They have had every opportunity to put to bed this discussion/controversy by retouching the illustrations for the new editions, yet they do not. Tell me something Dave; did the illustrations tend to get better after you consulted with the WTBTS, or worse? Did you get pissed off when they wouldn't take your advice? Did you think you knew more than any one of those "untrained artists directed by untrained and uneducated elder overseers"? Hmm . . . well pitty Dave, because the hidden references are still there no matter how many times you close your eyes and click your heals. And why have you fighting the subliminal crap for the last 6 years when you should realize that the hidden picture thing is a good way to get them dubs jumping on to your "hey-wait-just-a-minute-there's-something-wrong-here" bandwagon.

  I know who Vicary was and I know his study was a fraud. I also read the same internet article you copied most of your stats from word for word in your posting. Vicary's fraud did not lead to the banning of subliminals in advertising, in fact, it is only illegal here in the states to commmit deceptive advertising, not subliminal advertising. Why would they outlaw something that is ineffective and harmless anyway, Dave? Tell us all then, Mr. D'bunker, why do companies still spend millions to ensure the ad agencies put something suggestive or subliminal in their advertising? Why would Coke ask you to do the same? Are you the only one who knows "the truth" about subliminals? Sounds just like a claim a certain Society constantly makes. Is it because everyone is sooooo stupid and you are soooo smart? Ha ha, [edited]. If you want to expose the real issues, make your own site, that is if you can tear your fat ass away from this message board where you spend most of your time bitching about what the bad ol' WT did to you, and how everyone is stupid 'cept you.

  By the way, Dave, the "dog" on Jesus' left pectoral and ribcage is used symbolically. It is meant to be a satanic reference and an insult to his sacrificial death. You should read something more than just message board postings.

  For those interested, for those who know they don't know everything, (unlike Dave) please check out my site . . . then decide for youself.

  http://members.cox.net/hunyadi

  Kind Regards,

  Hunyadi
• 

  frenchbabyface

  They have had every opportunity to put to bed this discussion/controversy by retouching the illustrations for the new editions, yet they do not

  About the subliminal images and the WTBS That is the main thing, that is why I do not appreaciate the joke of : We didn't know / Satan get in the way / ... it is not logical ... the reedition should be cleaned then !
• 

  Goshawk

  Hunyadi,
  
  With all due respect intended I would like to comment on a few things stated in this thread.
  
  I have met, talked to, and hoisted a few drinks with Dave (seven006). I have even had a chance to see some samples of his artwork. Please let me state for the record that he is out and has no love for the Borg. He calls it like he sees it and doesn't waste time candy coating his opinion. Dave was being honest on the subject you asked for opinions about. While what was said was blunt I doubt that it was a personal attack directed toward you.
  
  My suggestion would be to relax, listen to the feedback then decide if the opinions you asked for have merit.
  
  If you ever get up to Oregon let me know and we might have to hoist a few together.
  
  Best regards,
  
  Goshawk
• 

  Kenneson

  I noticed in your headings that Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is sometimes Watchtower Bible and Track Society. Is Track subliminal? If not, then please correct that typo. It bothers me as much as some of those images pointed out to me.
• 

  Big Tex

  Hunyadi, you have a PM
• 

  gumby

  Hunyadi,

  What difference does it make if there were images purposely put there? Only if they were put there by those responsible for "feeding the flock"....the Slave Class or those they appoint......would there be reason for concern. What possible MOTIVE would the GB have, for putting in some ridiculous image, that means absolutely nothing nor suggest's anything?

  There are far many more reasons to find in denouncing the Organisation than hidden images.

  Gumby
• 

  Hunyadi

  The publications of the WTBTS are the key instruments by which their message is presented to the public, the veteran Witnesses, "newly interested ones", and our beloved children who are often pressured into baptism and dedicating their lives to the organization. First of all, I am not pleased with myself for having freely handed my children literature laced with images of death, skulls, gargoyles, zodial sybolism, satanic and pagan philosophical references. These images contradict the socalled Bible-based information contained on the pages of the WT literature. I am not pleased that many honest hearted Witnesses are unwittingly offering these publications at the doors. I am concerned that some sit in the Kingdom Hall and find something disturbing in the WT and go for years ignoring it. The hidden references are not simply or just there for brainwashing or covert mind control as some assert, but their very presence represents or gives evidence to the darker side of the organization. The sybolism in the artwork is quite nasty, technique and skill aside.

  I am choosing to take up this specific cause beeeeeecause it is a good place to start. The trek toward freedom from the WT often begins with examining peripherals, which leads to other questions and the deeper examining of what the hell it is you are actually doing, learning and teaching to others. Other issues come to light as a result, and gee, we begin to unearth all sorts of discrepancies and contradictions, lies and false statements by the Governing Bossy, the socalled infallible "faithfull and discreet slave". It is a more subtle way of introducing a JW to the truth about "the (WT) truth" without directly attacking their entire belief structure causing them to shut down altogether. For example, I pointed out one of the images to one of my teen daughters, just to get her reaction, and it lead her to start asking some hard and pointed questions about the Society. That's all it took, and I did not have to go into any other issue with her for she began examining the other issues for herself, and to say the least, her eyes are now open. She is now free to examine and take exeption to the other crappy dealings of the WTBTS . . . yay and good for her.

  So is this hidden image issue important? Yes, of course it is. There are hidden and insidious images hidden in the WTBTS literature and it is not going away, it keeps appearing in the latest issues and editions and it is deliberate. If these are just prankster artists having some fun, their hidden references are not at all Christian, but in fact dark and contrary to the WT's socalled message of salvation and the Bible, and they should be DF'd for entertaining such symbolism in their artwork no matter how amateurish or unskillfull/skillful it might appear. What must these artists be into! But the GB is the issuer "say-so", and they claim to closely scrutinize every page, every illustration before printing, therefore, after having heard the controversy, after having checked the illustrations, after having seen for themselves what is depicted in the illustrations and after hearing what the concerns of their faithful followers are, they are still allowing the images to be reproduced in the newer editions of older publications and to be used again in new issues of magazines without even the slightest retouch. They don't seem to care that many have been stumbled as a result. All they can do is deny that it is there.

  These issues and others will be addressed on my site. I welcome ideas and feedback, but please have the class and selfcontrol of the enlightened if you wish to dispute this, and please have something more than insults and anger, weak opinions and arguements to club me over the head with. Please don't let your ass show.

  Best Regards,

  Hunyadi`
• 

  Valis

  I'm w/gumby on this one. The artistic eye will always see images where they aren't necessarily meant to be. AND ya, all the other things to pin them on like blood, shunning, child abuse, twisting scripture, their not so nice beginnings, etc...I have a hard time believing such things were done on purpose or w/the consent of the GB...I betting we would know by now...*LOL* You got your site all layed out nice though.

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  frenchbabyface

  
  hunyadi : the fact is that to be accurate, you should focused on the OBVIOUS FAKE BUGS of the publication.

  Cause if you focused too much on none obvious onces ... (well it doesn't help for real ...) cause people will think you see them everywhere ... or need to build false evidence to proove your points ... Think about it
  
  And your site look nice !
• 

  seven006

  Hunyadi,
  

  I did not make my comments in response to your thread as an insult. If you saw it that way (and I see where you could have) I apologize, I got a little carried away when I read your site and saw you going off on things I know to be stupid and unfounded. I have issues with ignorance and unsubstantiated conspiracy theories done by people who do not have any expertise about specific subjects except for an over stimulated imagination and a web site wysiwyg program. I'm working on trying to minimize my issues with ignorant subject matter and the people who sensationalize and promote them.

  Coming back and calling me an "angry woman" was not only childish but a bit insulting to the women on this board. If I was you, I would apologize to the women here just as I apologized to you. I'm nothing to worry about, but they will rip your "hidden image seeing" eyes out.

  Being an expert in illustration and making a comment about subliminal images in illustrations does not make me arrogant, it makes me know more about the subject than you will ever know and have the ability to speak on the subject with authority, expertise and a strong sense of distrain. Except it, deal with it, and take your own advice and smoke a little pot, have a beer and just possibly get some therapy.

  I have lectured on the subject of illustration for the national society of illustrators across this country as well as given workshops teaching illustration to over 2,000 professional illustrators across the country. I have worked with college instructors in helping them better teach their art in over 100 universities across this country. I have sat on numerous boards involving art education for the national art material trade association and have been a key speaker for many of them. I have many of my illustrations as well as my fine art pieces published in numerous books and art related magazines. I was a contributing writer for Step by Step Graphics magazine, Art products news, National art material trade magazine, Airbrush Digest magazine, Airbrush Action magazine as well as others.

  If you want to take a little trip to your local library and check out a real cool book, look for a book titled "Hot Air"in the art section. It is a book that is a collection of the "best" airbrush illustrators in Europe, United States and Japan. I have three pages of work in that book. Now, what was your level of expertise on the subject? You got DF'ed for smoking?

  I'm not going to bother with all the awards Iv won nor am I going to get into my involvement in the American Advertising Association ("it's a bit boring" and some people may look at it as bragging so I don't talk about it much here) so lets just say I know more about advertising than you or the pack of smokes you had in your car glove box the day you got DF'ed. Is that arrogant enough for you? Sorry for giving a few of my credentials, I don't really like doing that here but you forced my hand.

  Just for you I'm going to give you a link to one of my professional illustrators rep's web sites. She reps my stuff in the mid west. The work there is kind of old but most of my clients have my portfolio CD that has a lot cooler stuff on it and is too big to make a web site to show it all. http://schunagroup.com/malone/0.html

  I am also a well known expert in Photoshop. That's a computer photo retouch program. I do Photoshop and illustration work for clients like Nike, Adidas, Coke, Intel, Disney, Touchstone, MGM, Columbia picture and a bunch of other people that hire the countries top "supposedly working" artist. BTW, I did not say Coke asked me to put a subliminal image in art I did for them, I said the subliminal image topic pisses them off.

  So, you asked me if because I am a "supposedly working artist" who the society asked to consult with there graphics departments (notice the "s" on the word departments) can I look at the watchtower publications and say there are no hidden images?

  Yes, I can.

  If one of the illustrators slipped in something as a joke, I can see that possibility, but I really doubt it. They do not have a sense of humor at Bethel and that would result in an instant expulsion. The artist there are afraid of their own shadows so the joke wouldn't be worth it to them.

  As far as the illustrations at the society getting worse? I don't know, I only see their artwork when some other illustration expert like you brings up this stupid subliminal conspiracy theory. I don't read watchtower rags anymore. I couldn't care less what they have to say or draw.

  Did I get pissed off because they did not take my advice? Not for a second, but they got a little pissed off at me for giving it. A few months later I left that screwed up religion for good because I saw they were corrupt, controlling, manipulating, and had a lot more things to hide because they are an organization of liars, cheats and egomaniacs. Not because they paint secret little hidden images of puppy dog heads in robes as a symbol to make fun of Jesus. Some christians just crack me up.

  Did I think I knew more than those "untrained artists directed by untrained and uneducated elder overseers"? Damn straight I did, and still do. I also know more about it then you ever will, Deal with it. I didn't ask them to come help me out with my art, they asked me to help them with theirs. What's that tell you about who knew what and how much?

  As far as the Vicary is concerned and the stupidity of the hype his crap caused I look at it as an overreaction based on insignificant information that caused undue hysteria. Kind of like the "War of the Worlds" broadcast by Orson Wells did that caused some pretty significant changes in FCC laws. As George Hull once said "There's a sucker born every minute."

  As far as companies putting suggestive images in their ads, yes they do. That is not hidden subliminal imagery, it's suggestive imagery to get people to buy things like clothes, beer, and cigarettes. That's why Victoria's Secrets doesn't use side show freaks for models. Refer to Mr. Hull's quote above.

  As far as me ripping my "fat ass" away from my computer and make my own website about the nasty old watchtower. First of all my ass is not fat, I have a little ass. Second of all, I have better things to do with my time then make anti-watchtower websites and those who have done sites about them do a fine job, they don't need me or you to do it again. Thirdly the Shockwave websites I have designed and won advertising federation awards for have nothing to do with religious mumbo jumbo. Pop up to Portland some time, I'll show you an award or two along with some pretty cool art Iv done. I don't smoke pot, so you'll have to bring your own, but I would have a drink with you.

  "((By the way, Dave, the "dog" on Jesus' left pectoral and ribcage is used symbolically. It is meant to be a satanic reference and an insult to his sacrificial death. You should read something more than just message board postings. ))"

  Really? And how do you know that? Did the paragraph after the illustration say that? If it did then I'm sorry for saying that. If it didn't then I guess a little therapy might change your mind. I do read more things than just this message board. Why don't you take a little time and read some of my posts on this board? Iv read a whole bunch of books, I'm sure it might possibly be a lot more than you. Some of them don't even have photos or illustrations in them (imagine that!).

  Again, I apologize if I offended you in my response that you asked people to respond to. Your site offends me with you ridiculous images in your conspiracy theory simply to promote your personal religious convictions and links to your site to preach about them. This is a sore subject for me and my first post to you was somewhat strong. Again, I'm sorry, I will try and keep my thoughts about it more cordial next time, I promise.

  Take care,

  Dave