UK squaddies kick Iraqi to death

by ISP 15 Replies latest social current

• 

  SixofNine

  we have to stop the governments? LOL, I will say you've come along way from being a JW *whispers* note to self, forward to John Ashcroft

  You may have noticed, warfare is conducted quite differently than say, 100 years ago. That is a good thing.

  No, your position isn't logical. I mean, it's nice that you are anti-war, but then most people are, even in, or especially in, the military. It's even better if you are anti THIS war, imo, since this war was prosecuted under some freakazoid "casually pre-emptive" doctrine, and didn't need to be.

  But here it is, going on apace, and there will be others, some of them even legitimate. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to hold to some standards of military conduct, does it?
• 

  dh

  LOL, I will say you've come along way from being a JW

  it's always nice to be mocked, but the war you write about is paper theory warfare, i just said in another post, the US doesn't hold to the geneva convention, it doesn't hold to what the UN says, it does as it pleases, if the geneva convention is a tool of convenience, i.e. you prosecute someone because they break it and you're breaking it every day yourself, sorry, to me that is just garbage.

  It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to hold to some standards of military conduct, does it?

  sure, of course there SHOULD be standards and there always HAVE been standards, it doesn't change the bottom line that bad things WILL always happen when one man is called upon to kill another, and as i also said in another thread, which may apply to your father blondie, is that an officer with an education is a world apart from a dumb unemployable recruit, or grunt squaddie who joined the army to shoot guns and blow shit up.

  You may have noticed, warfare is conducted quite differently than say, 100 years ago.

  you mean now we mostly just push buttons and distance ourselves from the blood and guts? but when they declared war on afghanistan the us went running to the french to brush up on hand to hand combat techniques that they never thought they'd have to use in 'modern warfare'.

  No, your position isn't logical. I mean, it's nice that you are anti-war

  okay so it's not logical, i am anti THIS war more than you imagine, but i'm not one for blaming an idiot for doing something stupid when it's a government that gave him the power to do it in the first place.

  the notion that OUR soldiers are better than THEIRS morally is stupid. they're defending their home, we're invading, of course they have the moral high ground.

  dh'
• 

  SixofNine

  but i'm not one for blaming an idiot for doing something stupid

  Heh? This is a question of murder, not a question of someone looking down to change the station when they are driving.

  Btw, you weren't being mocked, you were being joked with previously.

  i just said in another post, the US doesn't hold to the geneva convention, it doesn't hold to what the UN says, it does as it pleases, if the geneva convention is a tool of convenience, i.e. you prosecute someone because they break it and you're breaking it every day yourself, sorry, to me that is just garbage.

  There may be some truth to some of that, but if the situation in the video is systemic, then it is complaints like the web-site that might help change the system. Seems like we could agree that if we are in an age were soldiers are to some extent able to "just push buttons and distance ourselves from the blood and guts", then it is reasonable to take advantage of that capability in terms of fighting a cleaner war with more respect for enemy lives, combatant and otherwise, even as contradictory as that may sound.

  The point of war is not just to kill people, never has been. That is the point of genocide.
• 

  William Penwell

  Gee those Iraqi's are sure glad they have been liberated.

  Will
• 

  dh

  but i'm not one for blaming an idiot for doing something stupid

  this is a question of murder

  i agree, but i am looking at the context... in a context of peace time, say you kick someone to death in your office at work, surely it is murder and it is a use of excessive violence, but if you lose your temper and yell at someone (which is stupid), it's an acceptable measure of de-stressing/violence, however if your job involves killing regularly, and seeing your friends get killed, loud noises, gunfire, where yelling and all of the normal acts of rage are routine, naturally everything goes up a gear, you lose your temper and kill someone by mistake (which is also stupid), if an office professional can lose his cool, control or temper and yell, it's easy to see how this can happen to a soldier, just it's more extreme, like Patio said, 'not killing machines' everyone is an individual with their own stress level, and if like ISP said, we really should look at these 'individual cases' as i said we shouldn't because it's the nature of the beast, then we have to look at the whole lot, including the circumstances of the soldiers involved.

  i think that kicking someone to death in peace times and kicking someone to death in a war may be the same act with the same end, BUT they are very different crimes.

  mitigating circumstances your honour, and in this case i'm sure there are many, which i'm sure the MOD will be looking into.

  then it is complaints like the web-site that might help change the system

  i agree it could help change the system in theory, i don't think it will in practice though, just because of the stress levels that are involved, someone will always lose it, not for lack of training, but because of the nature of it, and kill kill kill kill doesn't inspire one to be peaceful.

  The point of war is not just to kill people, never has been. That is the point of genocide.

  i agree, but since killing is such a big part of it, there will always be this sort of baggage to accompany every war.

  anyway, i've ranted on enough, probably more ammo for you to mock me with ;)

  take it easy,

  dh'
• 

  D8TA

  i don't know why everyone is fussing about individual cases like this.

  this sort of stuff is normal in a war, we show it on tv every day.

  if we don't want this to happen we need to fix our governments and not have any more wars, not make a drama out of something that was inevitable.

  If you are a teenager, I am going to go with this comment as you being extremely ignorant and know not what you type...

  If you are an adult, I feel sorry for you.