Issue of Universal Sovereignty

by dh 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • dh
    dh

    here's another one of my pet questions...

    if you're the almighty, ruler of the universe, omnipotent, all seeing, all knowing, blah blah, from beginning to inning to alfa to omega to whatever

    why when something you created challenges your authority do you accept the challenge? (and not turn the other cheek or kill it)

    jw's say it's the issue of 'Universal Sovereignty', which basically means that Hovah.net felt he had to prove himself to his inferior creations, he couldn't kill the one who questioned because then the other creations would question some more, so to prove he was boss, he rose to the challenge.

    is it just me or does this picture look wrong?

    why would something almighty get so riled up over something so inferior, because let's face it, next to almighty, even the most beautiful of all is inferior.

    this is one of the reasons i left jw's by the way, it didn't make sense that an almighty being prove itself to an inferior one in a game that involves so much death and suffering, it just seemed like a clash of egos.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    It's a result of projecting a very human ego onto an anthropomorphic deity. The grasshopper in my back yard spit on my hand when i picked it up. Now i need to prove something about myself to that grasshopper, and also to every other hopper in all of the grasses in the whole back yard???? Don't think so. I will just sit in the shade, sipping my iced tea, watching all the hoppers eat grass, fly around, doing whatever they like doing. Heck, they can even escape into the nieghbors yard, if they want They are fun to watch, anyway.

    SS

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I'd agree with SS. Chess with a grasshopper isn't much fun...

  • garybuss
    garybuss



    When people just read one book, this is what happens. When I read the history of the Bible and the compilation of the cannons and how the book of Revelation almost didn't get included, I try to imagine what one book religions like Jehovah's Witnesses would be selling today if Revelation had not made the cut. These are people with a microscopic view of the world and of life who adopted a conspiracy theory as something real. They give the conspiracy theory so much weight that they are easily able to reject simple reality.

    Religions like the Jehovah's Witnesses assign everything a role in the conspiracy. Everything is black and white. People are seen as pawns . . . divided and labeled, the weather plays a part, governments are all bad and have a part, the world economic system is flawed and doomed, families are seen as really little more than economic support systems for group members and individual family members as well as whole families are dispensable.

    In business, assumptions are recognized as assumptions and given weight and value that is less than the weight and value given to objective information. In conspiracy focused religions, assumptions are taken for granted and are the very basis for the religion. Objective information is not a consideration, because there is no objective information to support the conspiracy theory. There is nothing except the theory itself. . . . nothing to support it but the assumptions.

    The issue of sovereignty replaced the issue of vindication. Both are elements of the conspiracy. Both are based on the reading of one book and both rely on assumptions for their merit. In closed systems like the Jehovah's Witnesses, members do not have the right to question the assumptions or to give weight or consideration to more than one book.

    In my experience, not only do groups only read one book, they only read selected passages from that one book. For example, the passages relating to acceptance, kindness, charity, and forgiveness, are omitted and the hard line approach of the jealous invisible god are embraced. Both approaches and both attitudes are Biblical no doubt. To be Biblical though, some groups readily dispense with decency. Once they dispense with decency, decency is rationed, like serum. It's okay that decency is gone because decency being gone fits the conspiracy theory model. Then charity is gone, then civility is gone, then reasonableness, then honesty. In the end emotion is bunted and hardened and all but gone. What remains is the hard side, anger, rejection, and legalism to hold it all together. All from a conspiracy theory, all from reading only one book.

    GaryB

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    Gary,

    Is there any particular book you would recommend on how the bible cannon was compiled especially the New testament?

    CF.

  • garybuss
    garybuss


    My favorite is the article, "The Bible" in the Encyclopedia Britannica. It is as long as a small book. I photocopied it and enlarged the print and put it in a three ring binder to read. It kind of lays the idea that the book appeared by magic to rest in my opinion.

  • City Fan
    City Fan

    Thanks Gary,

    It may be worth subscribing to the Britannica website for a month just to download the article.

    CF.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    As was pointed out long ago here the 7th Day Adventist/JW doctrine of Universal Sovereignty is logically flawed. Let us examine the excuses offered.

    It is asserted that God allowed time to pass to allow humans to experiment with self governance to prove for all time that humans screw things up and for individuals to demonstrate their alleigence to him.

    This is meaningless rhetoric. For instance, How long does it take to learn that humans make mistakes and that some of them are abusive? 6000 years?


    It is argued that He allowed humans to come to there height of technological achievement. What does that mean? When we invented the wheel we had reached our height of technological achievement. We warred with every new innovation conceived. Tomorrow we will learn more.






    To argue that he is allowing every individual to prove his alleigence to him is equally meaningless. Everyday more are born.


    The Jws say that God was also proving that his human design was not flawed, and therefore incapable of doing what is right. This is innane considering that the Bible story Job has God putting the screws to an innocent man who passed this test. Also the Jesus story supposedly closes the question of whether Adam could have obeyed.


    None of these excuses for God's permission of suffering holds water. A small amount of logic and they fall apart.

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Would you use your children or your dog as an example of obedience.( angels or human comparison)

    Are people more impressed when they see your well behaved children or your dog, who licks his butt too and is always good when your looking.(I can't lick my butt, no comparison there)

    A while back Bradley had an excellent thread on how the Angels should have been used to settle the issue, especially since Satan was the first to rebel not Adam or eve.

    Lets say the issue is settled, all mankind is destroyed and dubs populate the planet. 10,000 years from then would ones say... oh don't do that Jehovah can kill you on the spot for disobedience.... the right to rule issue was settled long ago. How do you know...well its written in Gumby 1:13 and also Littletoe 5:11 New scrolls which were opened after the destruction.

    Just kidding guys (Gumby and Littletoe)

    Actually it would probably be Joker 10:10 The geeks will inherit the earth.

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    No comments Gumby!

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