How did all the animals fit on Noah's Ark?

by hooberus 207 Replies latest watchtower bible

mineralogist

The answer is very easy. It is the same as with an elephant bringing into a refrigerator:
Open the door ... put 'em in ... close the door! Voila - they are in!
El blanko

The Bible account lacks detail and it is afterall a matter of ' faith '.
To me, it boils down to whether we believe God is capable of producing miracles that fall beyond our understanding. For the flood in Noah's day to occur, it would have had to have been a ' miracle '.
Trying to prove Noah's Ark ' scientifically ', according to our current knowledge base seems to me to be futile and ultimately worthless.
However, I do believe in miracles and I do believe in forces beyond my own understanding and current perception. There lies my faith.
greven

For the flood account as described in the bible to have been true it requires not one but scores of miracles to be explained.
Trying to prove Noah's Ark ' scientifically ', according to our current knowledge base seems to me to be futile and ultimately worthless.
Why so? Miracle or not, a global flood would leave it's traces don't you think? It sure is possible with current science to tell if such an event did occur in the earth's history. Would God miraculously remove all evidence of this event?
Greven
El blanko

greven:
Of course you make valid points. It would be nice for many to be given conclusive physical evidence for such an event. There have been many arguments put forth to suggest that this is the case. After a brief search on ' Amazon ' - I found several interesting books that propose to deliver the facts. Whether they do or not, is a question I cannot answer.
But, as I said earlier, it is simply a matter of ' faith '.
I believe in God, I believe that God can do whatever he chooses to do, in whatever way possible.
The account is sketchy at best in Genesis, yet appears to be backed up by many accounts in myth and legend. The Bible itself and the fact that we are talking about it now is remarkable within itself.
Even if it were not absolutely factual, it is does not discount the existence of God or even the degradation in morality we see within the world scene today, which I believe will be brought to an end. It also does not discount the general moral themes and principles put forth by the scriptures.
Do you rule out the supernatural completely?
(all of the above is IMO and my faith)
badboy

i READ IN 1 OF THEIR recent magazines that their was a water canopy above the earth.
greven

El Blanco,
But, as I said earlier, it is simply a matter of ' faith '. I believe in God, I believe that God can do whatever he chooses to do, in whatever way possible.
It is refreshing to hear you say that your belief in based on faith. I have no problem with that at all. I do have problems though, with people that assert that their beliefs are supported by evidence, like many funnymentalists claim. Think christian science for example. Usually they come up with all sorts of how it could have been scenario's with many maybe's and wild unsupported assumptions. Believing is one thing, claiming to prove it emperically is another. I do have some sidenotes on your post though:
The account is sketchy at best in Genesis, yet appears to be backed up by many accounts in myth and legend.
The bible is pretty clear in that it was global, and quite devastating to life on earth. Myth and legend are not reliable material to back up something that is hard to believe anyway. There are many common themes in legend, myths and ancient litterature which could point to either a common source of the story or simular things happening to people at different places. Local floods are not uncommon and could easily develop into legend. Dragons and other monsters also are a common theme in many myths around the globe. They do not become more real with each myth. In other words, backing up (suspected) myth with other myths or legends doesn't help much.
The Bible itself and the fact that we are talking about it now is remarkable within itself.
The bible endured many hardships but so did countless other religious writings like the Koran and Veda's. Also don't forget the writings of ancient greek philosopher's that were sometimes atheistic/agnostic in nature that have endured persecution from religious people. This is a well known fallacy known as argument from tradition/persecution. If one really believes a book can save your life it is not remarkable to see it getting passed on despite persecution. Besides, the bible did not survive intact. There are many lost books, gospels and writings that are refered to in the bible that are no longer in existance (some fragments are found though). Even today there are many different versions of the bible.
Even if it were not absolutely factual, it is does not discount the existence of God or even the degradation in morality we see within the world scene today, which I believe will be brought to an end.
I agree that disproving the bible does not prove the non-existance of God at all. But.. a degradation of morality? That depends on your world vision I guess. I think that in the former century large progress has been made in regards to human rights, emancipation and law (children rights, freedom of speech and religion etc). We saw the abolishment of slavery and apartheid. Surely enough, not all's well but claiming a moral degradation takes place requires a bit of doomthinking.
It also does not discount the general moral themes and principles put forth by the scriptures.
I find it hard to speak of general moral principles in regards to the bible. Surely I admire most of the moral lessons to be found in the teaching of Christ. However they stand in huge contrast with the barbarism of many OT passages. Christs admonishment to 'love your enemy', 'do not judge' and 'turn the other cheek' would be blasphemy to many of the OT heroes like Joshua. There is good to be found in the bible for sure, but much more evil is to be found in it's pages.
Do you rule out the supernatural completely?
As explanation for phenomenons, yes. Naturalistic explanations work just fine. 'Supernatural' is just a word for everything that lies outside of the realm of current knowledge. Sure enough there are forces or other things we don't know about. However, the supernatural is often used to temporary 'fill the gaps'. This supernatural explanation then takes on the form/definition of a certain entity, God or some other diety the speaker is arguing for. Thor, the god of Thunder was used as such a supernatural explanation for this phenomenon until a more suitable and correct naturalistic one could be found. Gaps in current knowledge should remain just that. "We don't know at the moment" would be a better thing to say then "God (or some other supernatural entity) did it".
I hope you do not feel like I am bashing you here. May I ask you in turn, how you view the bible? Literal, symbolic or something in between? (Partly) Inspired? Errant or Inerrant?
Greven
JosephMalik

So exactly HOW DID the kangaroos make it from the middle east.
Gopher, Greven,
The flood was not global. It only needed to kill the world of mankind corrupted at the time. AlanF argued this point successfully both here and on H2o long ago. World does not mean planet and such texts have been interpreted far beyond what was being described in them.
Joseph
El blanko

Think christian science for example. Usually they come up with all sorts of how it could have been scenario's with many maybe's and wild unsupported assumptions.

Indeed. These particular individuals you refer to often quote others as well without background research. In many ways I used to be this way myself 10-15 years ago. So desperate to cling to a belief, that I would deny the faith involved and simply direct a person to another source of information without my own study & insights. It is very silly and certainly unwise/unfair to preach in this way.
The bible endured many hardships but so did countless other religious writings like the Koran and Veda's. Also don't forget the writings of ancient greek philosopher's that were sometimes atheistic/agnostic in nature that have endured persecution from religious people. This is a well known fallacy known as argument from tradition/persecution. If one really believes a book can save your life it is not remarkable to see it getting passed on despite persecution. Besides, the bible did not survive intact. There are many lost books, gospels and writings that are refered to in the bible that are no longer in existance (some fragments are found though). Even today there are many different versions of the bible.
True - there are many gurus out there, that through the ages have pressed their minds to find Godly wisdom. I argue that the accepted texts of the Bible have covered a greater percentage of the planet than any other set of spiritual works and do not exclude nations from adherance and worship of the one God. Christianity goes beyond other faiths in terms of a lack of idolatry and lack of focus upon material worship & gain. Of course, if applied correctly. As a Christian the principles and practises guard ones own mind from excessive bouts of ego bolstering.
The glory within the faith is directed towards the highest source and not an earthly guru or gurus. Or indeed, spirits of the dead.
Shoot me down in flames please
There are different versions of the Bible, but if you own several and cross reference, the message remains pretty much intact throughout.
not all's well but claiming a moral degradation takes place requires a bit of doomthinking.
Here we part. To accept that the very foundation of our society is somehow firmer than it was 100 years ago is to deceive ones mind. The arms race alone is out of control and continuing to be so (check the annual figures). The environmental issues facing the earth are dreadful (again, a search over the internet reveals the truth). The lack of trust within society among people is apparent (take a walk through a large city and simply look at people, the undercurrent of fear should be apparent). To quote an elderly member of my family, "I remember a time when you could leave your house for 1/2 a day, leave your door unlocked and come home safe and sound". Rank materialism is pushed into our faces daily. So to, hightened sexuality. I have had around 20 emails today offering penis enlargement. Another dozen or so offering me drugs. Several aimed at expanding my bank account through easy loans. I think the degradation is there if you look. It isn't hard for me to see. I accept that you choose not to see it that way. I am not a 'doom & gloom' merchant, simply a realist IMO. Although I have my darker moments
Gaps in current knowledge should remain just that. "We don't know at the moment" would be a better thing to say then "God (or some other supernatural entity) did it"
I do not think those gaps exist, I simply believe that the explanations are now denied and hidden from the common psyche (the ultimate tool of control). The malevolant forces are simply aware of fashion and the time we live in at any given moment. They adapt their techniques accordingly. Many ancients were aware of spirit beings and did not deny their existence and influence. May I suggest a study within the works of John Dee or a look at the modern Shaman? Although I would not usually advise looking into occult practise, if you simply take an overview, you'll see the patterns emerge. Spirit creatures manifest themselves in very similar ways, yet use different techniques. Often within the guise of being light bearers. I am currently reading a book called "The Dark Gods / Anthony Roberts" which studies the UFO phenomenom amongst other areas. Very interesting.
I hope you do not feel like I am bashing you here. May I ask you in turn, how you view the bible? Literal, symbolic or something in between? (Partly) Inspired? Errant or Inerrant?
Hey, no problem. Something inbetween and definetly inspired.
peacefulpete

JosephM...That means that only a very small percentage of people on he earth then were viewed as 'corrupted' and therefore deserving of drowning. 4000 years ago there were people all over this globe with very different cultures and religions. Does that make God an antiSemite?

I like the assertion that there was only one continent 4000 years ago on the website hooberus offered! By the way the Creationist view is that most of the kinds of animals that existed before the flood were NOT preserved on the ark. All the fossil remains of ancient land and sea creatures testify to God's picking and choosing which kinds he liked. According to recent estimates about 99% of the species that have been on the earth have gone extinct. So apparently God only saved the 1% or so.
seven006

Hoob,
Olive leaf, dove, seven days, answer.
Dave

How did all the animals fit on Noah's Ark?

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