How many here were long time "pioneers" until you woke up?
by seeitallclearlynow 20 Replies latest jw friends
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seeitallclearlynow
Sorry, pressed enter instead of tab
The reason I ask, is those who have been in full time "service" for many years strike me as very obedient, dutiful, disciplined people, and more difficult to get through to. But maybe not - we all know things bother us for some time, and then it starts to sink in, maybe after some research, that the "truth" stinks. And why I really ask is, my sister has been beating herself up physically and emotionally for some 25 years, and though she doesn't complain, whenever we talk, she relates some story of how the various elders pressure her and give her a hard time over small things, never being comforting, but rather the opposite.
Don't misunderstand - she is a very organized, giving pioneer, and also works constantly on the Quick Build Program, w/ regular assignments, always makes her time, always helps the losers (my word, not hers) in the congregation, works part time, and has an unbelieving husband, who, though not unkind at all, has been no spiritual support all these years. She always works in pre-convention work, has a regular assignment at every convention, though she has rather severe physical discomfort most of the time. She works at her housework till about midnight or 1 am every night.
There's more to say to describe her life, and to me she's obsessed w/ working out her salvation; and I love her very much. I just would like to say something that would help her, and not immediately cause her to put up the Watchtower guard, as it were.
ANY IDEAS?
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shamus
always helps the losers
Yet another example of "love" in the congregation. She sounds charming.
Quite frankly, I take serious offence to that. True, I am not speaking of social misfits in the congregation, but to consider someone in the congregation a "loser" is just plain awful. It's obvious that she has no idea of any of Jesus teachings.
That is the most offensive thing I have ever seen on this board. I know it's your sister, but you put the comment out, and I have a right to comment on it. That's just sick, but typical. It also shows the level that witnesses work on whenever they speak of "love" in the congregation.
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JamesThomas
I just would like to say something that would help her, and not immediately cause her to put up the Watchtower guard, as it were. ANY IDEAS?
People who work as hard as your dear sister does for "salvation" are likely motivated by an intense fear of death, and they will take sides with Jehovah (I feel a song coming on) even if he kills every other man, woman and child on earth. Their sense of love and compassion has been greatly distorted via their beliefs in a vengeful and murderous god. Often times these folks are themselves quite kind, yet can not help but be confused and numbed upon honoring and worshipping a concept of god whose morals are far lower than their own. I wish I could give you suggestions on something to say that may help awaken your sister; but it will be difficult unless you can also offer something to replace, what to her -- is her whole universe. Just be kind and patient with her. The presence and light of your unconditional love for her, will be the best elixir.....and stick around here, as others will likely come up with something more. j P.S. to Shamus: "losers" was a term seeitall used, not her sister.
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simplesally
Shamus, the sister is not calling these people "losers"........ I know what you mean though. My first ex husband used to say that I was only friends with 'losers' and it hurt my feelings. I chose to be friends with ones that were elderly or that sat near the wall or the back of the hall. It was easier to be friends with people that weren't already part of a clique --- these 'lesser ones' in the hall really had the most to give and always were dependable service partners. It was wonderful when they branched out and asked others to join us and didn't 'need' me anymore!
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franklin J
I was a full time pioneer from age 17, until I turned 21 and decided I wanted to go to college and study Architecture. My dad was an elder and both my older sisters were pioneers, married to elders.
I remember being very concientious as a full time pioneer and was assigned to be a ministerial servant and taking that very seriously. I can remember taking the "worldly" thing so seriously that my life was a "theocratic" vacuum. I lost out on many childhood and school activities which could have been very enriching. Not to mention the education I ignored in High School ( armegedon was coming in 1975). In hindsight, the restraints and sacrifices were all so unnecessary . I was lucky to have begun my exit at such an early age, and pursue a college education and professional career. The thought of living my life in that religion ( my childhood was "sacrificed" to it) is stifling. And at this phase of my life I find the JW beliefs and behaviour offensive and borderline "fascist".
Shamus, if you are reading this,think of the "loser" application from this perspective: It may be a sad fate but all those who are still part of that faith, however blindly or conscientiously, are the real losers. And I say that, not negatively, but by way of observation; as they have literally lost their lives to that belief. It is a sad, blind fate.
To each his own, and fortunately we live in a free world where one can choose whatever religion they want.
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Joyzabel
"she's obsessed w/ working out her salvation"
yes, she has blind obedience.
Good words from James, be patient. Show her love. Real, unconditional love. Get an old Living bible and just sit back and read Galations with her. Maybe she will see herself as "working out her salvation" and not having faith in Jesus' ransom. I found it takes little bitty steps, to think like a JW to reach a JW. Have her trust be in the bible and not an organization. Then show her what the bible says.
lots of luck. I was a publisher for 40 years. Pioneer, bethelite, elder's wife, blah, blah, blah and I woke up. So there is always hope.
hugs,
j2bf
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amac
Pioneer/Bethel for 6 years. Not sure what you can tell her, each person is going to have different things that trigger their questions. Maybe ask her how sure she is about everything they teach and whether or not they could be wrong. Ask her if she feels she ever gets up in the morning to go out in service because she feels she has to or because she loves Jehovah. If she ever feels she does it because she has to then ask her if she thinks the "fear of man" or doing what others around her say is right might be a motive. In the end for me, all it took was for me to study the bible on its own and research every question scripture by scripture using both WT books and non-WT books (mainly religous history and biblical history books.)
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seeitallclearlynow
Thanks, everyone who has responded so far! I will ask her to read Romans and Galatians "for comfort" and hopefully she will take the time to do that, instead of reading an Awake or something; the scriptures, even in the NWT, really helped me (no surprise!) when I stopped reading the literature.
Oh, and I apologize for the use of the word "losers" - I meant it as "users" - but maybe that would be offensive too - the ones I refer to in my comment would call my sister so often that she was almost constantly answering the phone during the few hours each day that she was actually home w/ her husband, that he literally ripped the phone out of the wall and insisted that she put the answering machine on every afternoon. And he is a VERY CALM, PASSIVE, NICE GUY. She was glad for his interference, because she could never say no, or just let the phone ring. After that, though, even her family had a hard time getting hold of her - she doesn't give out her cell number even to me! I thought something was wrong w/ her - she lives so far away from me, and I rarely ever see her.
Something unique about my sister, that really floors me because it seems so rare in people who, like her, DO SO MUCH WITHOUT LET UP, is, she doesn't judge the ones around her who seem to have the means, but who do so little. Sometimes they are her best friends. For example, one of her long-time best friends won't even allow the friends to use her bathroom when they come over for the Book Study, which has been at her home for decades. And when one of the mothers approached her to ask if she may take her child to the bathroom, was told "they should have gone before the meeting - it's only an hour - can't they hold it for one hour?" - and the sister was told, albeit "gently" that she would have to start going to the Kingdom Hall Book Study if her children were going to require the use of a bathroom!!!!! Now, at first, my sister was furious at this sister and her elder husband for being so ungiving and unloving about the use of their precious bathroom; but she forgave them, and they are good friends. SO... when my sister was out of town for a few days recently, and this same sister took it upon herself to help my sister out by simply bringing in her mail, my sister said "Oh, So-and-So is suuuch a good person...." I just rolled my eyes as I turned away.
Another example of how people use my sister and she still accepts and loves them is, years ago, a young sister would go in service w/ her often, and because of the weather out there and just the general way the city is, there is no street work like we have so much of out here in California, and for my sister, no late afternoon or evening service time because her husband placed a curfew on her and she abides by it (he's VERY strict about this ONE thing, for her safety) - she must be home by dusk. So, this young sister would always ask, during service, "Could you just take me over here or over there, and can we stop at the market/dry cleaner/Mom's house/ whatever" everyday - so it was hard to get the required "time" in. ( And of course, she's very strict with herself on timekeeping - never embellishes or makes the usual allowances.) This young sister, it turns out, was actually having my sister drop her off at her BOYFRIEND'S house sometimes, unbeknownst to sis, until she became pregnant, was publicly reproved, had the baby, and the whole time, you guessed it, they were friends, and still are.
That's the way it should be, I admit. But I would have been too angry at either of these two women to continue being close to them - but my sister is true blue! In spite of how "good" she may be, she doesn't view others as "bad" or "inferior." It's amazing. And yet, now I know, she's spinning her wheels in a false religion. So sad.
Thanks for listening.
Sorry to cause any hurt - and I appreciate the comment about befriending the shy ones or the ones that others may have considered odd, whatever - those were my friends! And my daughter's too. Now my son - that's a different story!
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JamesThomas
See, Your sister sounds like a truly kind and compassionate person and....it seems like her heart is really into being a damn-good-Witness. My dear mother was that way. The world is a marvels place, and full of surprises. Perhaps -- no matter what stories are told on this board -- the best thing to do is just rejoice that your sister has found what makes her happy and fulfilled; and allow her the space and your blessings to continue. We may see a problem where there is none. j