Quick introduction (page 3)

OzGirl

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Yes, I am Aussie. Not related to "Dorothy."

I am a convert and still attending meetings at this point in time (depending upon how my week is going.)

I agree with what SAHS wrote - I don't think I could have written that any better.

I'm just going to write about some of the financial issues for now. I'll write about other questions and doubts in a separate post.

When I first started attending assemblies, our congregation used to hold these in rented school halls. So I figured that some of the contributions would go to paying for the use of the rented hall for the weekend. So I would make a small contribution on these occasions.

Later on, the Assembly Hall was built. I continued to make small contributions whenever I attended. Then the Assembly Hall was paid off. I felt then that the amount needed for donations should go down, technically speaking from a financial point of view. Instead, the opposite happened and the amount required to cover the cost of each assembly went up. No explanation was given. From that point on, I stopped donating.

I also wondered why it was that each assembly started off with a deficit. So I started to track the finances for the circuit as I went to each assembly. There seemed to be a pattern and I wondered if our circuit was struggling financially. To test out this theory, I started attending assemblies in a different part of the circuit and tracking their finances. But I noticed the same pattern, each assembly started off with a deficit.

Another point that I wondered about was the Annual General Meeting report from the Watchtower Society. Whenever I read an Annual General Meeting report from any other corporation, it always contains the financial status and a breakdown of their figures. The first time I read the Annual General Meeting information in the Watchtower magazine, I wondered how they would forget to include the financial information. So I asked one of the brothers about the matter, and was told that "I don't need to worry about such things because the faithful and discreet slave handle important matters like that." (Is that so?)

When I learnt that the Watchtower Society was getting involved in hedge fund investment, the thought that went through my mind was: "Skating on thin ice here. Dangerous game - hedge fund investing." There are high returns in investment BUT there are high risks involved as well. There isn't very much margin for error. I also do not understand how it is possible for an organisation to retain a non-profit, tax-exempt status and yet at the same time, be involved in hedge fund investment.

I'll write about other doubts and questions as time permits.

OzGirl

Following on from the previous post.

I also think that the Watchtower Society does not have a viable business model. It is worth a lot of money in terms of assets but is short on "operational cash." (This is to be expected from an organisation that doesn't encourage its members to get higher education and find lucrative employment.) Branch buildings and property need to be sold to try and generate cash. But the funds obtained from these sales is only going to go so far.
Other corporations have to use such measures to survive financially also. But they are short-term or stop-gap solutions that keep a corporation afloat while it recovers from financial shortfalls.

The hedge fund investment, the sales of building and property as well as the "special monthly contribution" (one of the posters here called it "the everlasting loan" but I can't remember who they were) - all of these factors combined tell me that the Watchtower Society needs to generate vast amounts of money and they need to generate it in a short space of time.

Listener

Welcome OzGirl, I live in WA but don't hold that against me.

A suggestion is to start a new thread as the points you bring up aren't reflected in you thread title and it is an important that you appear to have done your own research on.

They made a lot of money when they were charging for publications. Now that it is on a donation basis we have seen the frequency and number of pages being reduced in the magazines and there are less books being published. Nothing is hard bound these days except for the bible. I remember asking for payment of the publications from the householder and saying that it was only to cover the cost of printing, what a lie that was.

Now they have had to find new means of making money which is pretty normal for any religion but the problem is that they are so secretive about how they go about this and resort to some questionable means.

There hasn't been a lot of discussion about it here but the Org. set up a new website to take bookings for Hotels, unfortunately you need a password to get into the website but I think it would be another source of commission.

.

OzGirl

Continuing to address Magnum's request for more information on questions and doubts. I've already covered the financial questions in the previous posts so I'll write about the non-financial ones now. These points aren't in chronological order.

Changing the meaning of the word "generation" in 1995. That to me, is an admission that the 1914 teaching is wrong. And it is a point that was buried in a Watchtower study and covered in a couple of paragraphs. Like they slipped it in there and hoped that we wouldn't notice.

I worked out that the 1914 chronology was wrong when we were studying the Revelation Climax book for the second time through. The book study conductor was droning on one night - I had a huge day at work, that day - (deep sigh) So I started working on the "7 times = 2520 years" chronology "equation." The years are calculated on the idea of 360 days making up a prophetic year. However, a calendar year makes up 365 days. Yet the prophetic years are counted from 607 BCE as if they are calendar years. 5 days difference doesn't sound like very much. But 5 days x 2520 = 9600 days. If my calculations are right, that means that 9600 days works out to be 26 years and 110 days. So the 1914 chronology is short by 26 years and 110 days.

Also Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE, but around 586/587 BCE, according to scholars. Haven't seen any historian ever put the date at 607 BCE.

"Overlapping generation" - where is the Biblical evidence to support this? If Jesus thought that there were going to be 2 "generations" wouldn't he have made that clear in the Bible? The GB are just making things up as they go along. Whatever sounds good at the time.

How could the Bible Students be appointed in 1919 as the faithful and discreet slave when they were still celebrating Christmas and other practices that they now frown upon? (Although "new light" has since come out on this point as their appointment and reward is now considered to be a future event.)

Why did it take over 90 years for the faithful and discreet slave class to figure out who they were and what their status was before Jehovah?

What purpose did it serve, to preach for over 90 years that the slave class had received its reward, when this event hadn't happened?

The Watchtower Society bases its "new light" concept on the scripture at Proverbs 4:18 ("The path of the righteous one gets brighter....") Where is the scriptural precedent to show that Jehovah gave false information as a temporary, stop-gap solution until the true and accurate information was made available?

The context of Proverbs chapter 4 is a comparison between the path of the righteous one and the path of the wicked one. It isn't about prophecy.

How many versions of the Mosaic Law are there? One. And the Mosaic Law is thousands of years old. It doesn't seem to get "new light"

The scripture about the "two witness" rule and the child abuse policies don't seem to get "new light" either.

Will post more doubts and questions later, in response to Magnum's request.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Welcome!

Obviously, you think more than WT wants you to. The GB would be much happier if you stand with a partner near a literature cart... and not think.

OzGirl

Have to post a correction here - I made a blooper with the figures about the 1914 "equation." Sorry. Oops!

5 days x 2520 = 12600 days. If I worked that out correctly, that comes to 34 years and 190 days.

smiddy

Welcome OzGirl from a fellow ozzie.

Don` t you know that women are not to think , let alone voice their opinions in the congregation ? They are to be subservient to the Elders and the Governing Body who are taking the lead over the Christian Congregations of Jehovah Witnesses ,giving out food at the proper time..You certainly do not offer Critiscism of your superiour`s no matter how valid your points may be.

I look forward to hearing more of your analysis on the obvious errors of the governing Body.

smiddy

DJS

OzGirl,

Several of us have reached similar conclusions regarding the Borg's business design. Asset heavy, cash flow poor. With potentially a lot of very expensive lawsuits staring at them. Many of the recent changes are designed for cash flow, operational expenses, that they do not want to pay from asset sales or take from capital projects.

And you are right; they've kept the rank and file uneducated, with among the lowest incomes wherever they are. Karma.

dozy

Welcome Oz Girl. This is an aspect that has long interested me as well. I've tried to look into the USA accounts but it is very difficult to get any public information out.

It seems to me that the WTBTS has pretty much changed its business model from selling literature to flipping properties.

jhine

Oz Girl

the non financial points you make are so right . The Watchtower's interpretation of the Bible is well , wrong .You are aware that they frequently mis-quote experts and even Biblical commentators to support their teachings .

That is however another thread as this one is about the financial dealings of the WT . I cannot make comment on this as I have never been a JW but it makes fascinating reading , please keep enlightening us

Jan

Quick introduction

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