ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files

by Richard Oliver 161 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  just fine

  Your numbers have nothing to do with people not punished by law enforcement, how could they?

  My beliefs, are just that, mine. And yours belong to you. I don't need to change mine, and you don't need to change yours if you are happy with them. We both have beliefs, we believe are firmly rooted and I am happy with mine. I don't need your validation or permission to have whatever beliefs I choose.

  You want everyone to agree with you, to validate your point of view. We don't all have to agree on anything, that's the benefit of being an ex-jw.
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  Richard Oliver

  No I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Though what I do expect people to do is accept what is considered facts when facts are presented to them. Again, you can interpret those facts however you want to. But just dismissing the facts because they don't agree with your opinion is wrong. You have to at least acknowledge those facts, many people here don't want to acknowledge the facts because it doesn't agree with their opinion. I have to give you credit just fine, you at least will look at facts that you may not agree with, you don't dismiss them right off the bat as being false or a lie, you may not agree with the way that it was gathered or how other people interpret them, but you at least acknowledge those facts as being real.
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  just fine

  I have no reason not to acknowledge things as they come up. I can then analyze and determine whether I believe them to be relevant or not. It's not a personal attack on you that I don't see things the same as you. We have different backgrounds, different perspectives, so we come to different conclusions. It's life 😀
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  Richard Oliver

  Just Fine:

  Thank you for acknowledging that, and I am sorry if I came off as not acknowledging your personal opinions before. You are exactly correct, we can interpret facts differently and like you said there is no reason to avoid the facts. You see it one way and I see it differently. That is not always the case on here, you have to admit that though, there are people on here who don't care what facts are being presented, they just want to steamroll over the facts and not even acknowledge them and discuss them. They just feel that they are right no matter what is presented and that other people who has a differing opinion is wrong immediately because they disagree with them.
• 

  cha ching

  The reeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllll issue is: why is there a "sex offenders list"?

  So that people have a chance to protect themselves. At least they have a chance.

  As seen from the Australia Royal Commission, WT headquarters DOES have a 'sex offenders list' of their own, that the GB COULD make available and INSTRUCT elders to warn & inform to protect children, as they repeatedly say "we abhor child abuse".

  They abhor it? What do they do about it? They don't comply with court orders, and turn them over.

  Even if the law does not require it, they are morally & spiritually responsible to protect these children from being stumbled and protected from offenders.

  (Matthew 18:6) 6 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide, open sea.

  
  
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  Richard Oliver

  Cha Ching.

  I think you hit the actual important thing on the head. There is a difference between law and what is morally good. There is a difference between the court of law and court of public opinion. The court of law is all about technicalities and that is what matters. What is moral and what the courts can deal with are two different things. The court of public opinion is something where emotion, opinions and other aspects of truth can come out.
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  just fine

  Sometimes we all get a little "passionate" about things. I think most of us has been that person at one time or another. One of my favorite quotes from here is " Your Jehovah's Witness is showing". It reminds me to let other people believe what they want to.

  Again we all come at things from a unique perspective. All of us were hurt in different ways from the Witnesses or we wouldn't be here. We are mad because we were lied to, abused, treated badly, so different things trigger each person. I don't blame or credit the JWs for how my life has turned out - it's all on me.

  I feel like your original point was that JW's can't be responsible for all cases of child abuse within the organization because they couldn't have known about them. I agree with that. It's the cases they did know about and didn't report that gets me going. Their policies that allow an abuser to not face criminal consequences, it needs to change. Children are so vulnerable they need to be protected wherever they are. People here are touchy about it because at one time we all thought those policies were right, and we know better now.
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  Richard Oliver

  Just fine:

  I appreciate the fact that you feel it is the policy to keep it secret. I think it is very easy how people can see it that way. I personally don't think that it is a policy to keep these things secret but to respect privacy and privilege, but you certainly don't. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but so am I. As time goes on we will see how lawyers, judges and legislatures see it to be, and the thing is in a lot of ways, when it goes to the technicalities of the law their opinions are the only ones that matter. But certainly other people's opinion matters very much when it comes to the press and the general public.
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  dubstepped

  Richard, what is the point that you're trying to make here? You seem to have some sort of angle, but I'm unsure as to where you're going with any of this. Are trying to say that the Borganization can't be sued successfully over sexual abuse? Is that it? Or are you just trying to say that pedophilia isn't that bad in the Borg? What is your point?
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  Richard Oliver

  I am trying to say is that when you look at all of the data you find some interesting points. Do I personally feel that they should be sued for all of these? I don't. I know that some people will disagree with me and feel that there is talk about 150000 Austrian dollars per person should be paid out by the organization. I don't think that is right for all of those cases because many of them had nothing to do with Watchtower other than the fact that the perpetrator happened to be a JW. The victim was picked exclusively because they were part of the congregation and nothing could have been done to prevent that crime. Are there instances where an additional victim didn't have to be abused if Watchtower did the morally right thing, that is a different question. But even beyond Australia, people will use those number to extrapolate that there are x number of abusers in each congregation around the world, but if you are going to do that you have to look at the numbers behind that total number. My point is that it is not an easy thing to say that Watchtower should have done X or Y in order to prevent all child abuse.