The ascension of King David to heaven (page 3)

Mary

Thanks for 'resurrecting' this Jeffrey .....I'm book marking it too.

I'm thinking we should start our own magazines: Leolaia and Narkissos can write the articles, Blondie can give her interpretations and I'll inject my humour. Then we'll send them out to all the Dubs in our area, although I'm sure they couldn't possibly compare with the mind-numbing drool that comes out of the Writing Department.

hamsterbait

As always Leo's thread makes me want to rob her library. This is soo fascinating.

One little aside:

Abraham was said to have been buried by the Oak of Mamre.

Is this a reference to the same trees the "terebinths of Mamre" of Ge 14? If so I find it interesting that the account says Abraham was buried under a tree renowned for its divinatory powers. The sap - turpentine, induces a "trip" of sorts when the fumes are sniffed.

Just my little intellectual "coffee-break" from a brilliant piece of research.

HB

Leolaia

BTW, this is so ancient, and I haven't read this in ages...so some of the views expressed here may no longer represent my present thinking....:)

snowbird

If Abraham, Moses, etc., did ascend to heaven, Matthew 27:51-52 re the post-crucifixion resurrections, Ephesians 4 about Jesus' ascending on high with captives, Revelation 4 where the 24 elders are first introduced begin to make sense. I was never really satisfied with the WTS' explanations of these Scriptures.

I've often wondered why John evinces no surprise at seeing the 24 elders seated around the throne of God. It's as though John presupposes the reader would be aware of their identity. I remember reading that an associate of Russell's remarked that E. W. Bullinger, author of The Companion Bible, said he believed Revelation was written to and for the Jews. Russell is reported to have said that Bullinger just may have been right.

There is so much about the Bible that we have to unlearn as well as learn. The WTS only scratches the surface with their so-called "Bible" studies.

Sylvia

NanaR

Leo:

You rock ;-)

Ruth

aqwsed12345

According to the WTS, such great figures of the past as King David or John the Baptist did not make it to heaven. And if they couldn't make it, how could we, simple believers, ever hope to get there, right? However, it's worth continuing to observe how the WTS argues: The WTS poses a misleading question. No Christian denomination's theology claims that "every good person goes to heaven". This theory might be popular among non-Christians, but only someone who does not know the Bible could make such a claim. Again, examining the broader context helps us with the correct interpretation.

Peter wants to prove that Jesus' resurrection was prophesied, and the Old Testament prophecy could not be fulfilled in David, because he did not rise like Jesus. Only Jesus' body was not found in the tomb. This contrast wants to emphasize Jesus' resurrection, but it does not reveal anything about David's state in eternity.

Acts chapter 2 uses David's prophecy about the physical resurrection. Peter makes it clear that David's prophecy could not refer to David, because David died, and his body experienced decay, his grave is still visible as proof of this. The contrast is between David's decomposed corpse in the grave and the living, immortally resurrected Christ. David's body saw corruption, Christ's body did not, but rose immortally and incorruptible. Christ is therefore clearly superior to David, and therefore He is Lord of David.

The Watchtower quotes Acts 2:34 about David, who did not ascend to heaven and claims that he will be resurrected for earthly eternal life - instead of heavenly life. However, just because David did not immediately go to heaven at the time of his death, this does not mean that he was excluded from the Old Testament saints who went to heaven at Christ's resurrection.

Moreover, far from the Watchtower using this verse to prove whether David has or does not have heavenly hope, the context does not mention David's resurrection at all, but rather Christ's and how He fulfilled the promises given to David. Thus, we see that when Jehovah's Witnesses use this verse as evidence for their view on David's resurrection, it is completely unfounded.

The translation of this verse is intended to support the idea that the deceased go into a "death sleep" after their death, and even the best do not go up to "heaven". Concerning the doctrine itself, we only note two things: (1) No biblical Christian denomination teaches that "every good person" goes to heaven. The condition for salvation ("being saved") is faith in Jesus (Jn 1:12-13), not living a good life. (2) The souls of the deceased do not go to the "heavan" after their death, as we are not talking about astronauts or airplane pilots, but to heaven. There is a difference between the two, as under the heavan we usually understand the atmosphere or outer space, under heaven we understand the place of God, his presence, the place where he is, that is, the invisible sphere of his kingdom.

However, it is more important now to examine the correct translation of the verse. In the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, it appears: "οὐ γὰρ Δαυεὶδ ἀνέβη εἰς τοὺς οὐρανούς" (see The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, WTB&TS, 1985. p. 527.). The correct translation of the text is: "For David did not ascend to the heavens...". Regarding the misinterpretation, consider the following:

Did you notice that the Society does not quote Acts 2:34 correctly? Its exact text is this: 'For David did not ascend to the heavens', but Christ, about whom David wrote in Psalm 110:1. Again, just observe the text itself! What do you think, was Peter really talking about David and his eternal fate, or was he preaching about Jesus? I believe Peter used David's lines to validate Jesus' resurrection. He is proving that David was not talking about himself in the psalm (since he died, his grave is well known, 2:29), but prophesied about Jesus (cf. Mt 22:43). Shouldn't David's fate be left in the hands of his Risen Lord?

We see another example of how the Watchtower Society rewrites, falsifies the text of the Bible in order to support its own teachings, and prints and distributes this in hundreds of millions of copies among the people seeking God. Is this an honest practice on the part of the translators and the publisher? Shouldn't we rather let the Scriptures form people's lives with their unaltered text? Can it really be said of Jehovah's Witnesses in the light of Bible forgery that they are the true religion because the "members revere the Bible as God's Word"?

Our understanding is aided by examining the broader context. Peter wants to prove that Jesus' resurrection was prophesied, and the Old Testament prophecy could not be fulfilled in David, as he did not rise in a manner similar to Jesus. Only Jesus' body was not found in the tomb. This juxtaposition wants to emphasize Jesus' resurrection, but it does not reveal anything about David's condition in eternity.

The real question that Jehovah's Witnesses need to answer is where David will be in the resurrection? The Watchtower teaches that Old Testament prophets will be resurrected on earth, as they are not members of the 144,000 chosen Jehovah's Witnesses who go to heaven. In contrast, the Bible teaches that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be in heaven. Jesus said, "But I say to you, many will come from east and west, and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

So what is the correct answer, did David go to heaven or not? In the end, yes. Two aspects need to be considered: 1. When David put the quoted text on paper, he was still on earth. 2. Today, David's soul is in heaven. However, his body has not yet risen, and it is not in heaven, as Acts 2:29 suggests.

https://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/do-the-old-testament-saints-receive-a-heavenly-reward/

The ascension of King David to heaven

jefferywhat