C. S. Lewis "Mere Christianity"

by rem 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    Hi Little toe! I agree with you that,questions are raised and thinking is challenged,however not in the way the quotes were expressed on the jacket of the book.The issues written by C.S.Lewis are not new,and much has been written on the subject.

    I did not come away with any satisfying conclusions on his thoughts about the problem of pain.He did not achieve his goal with me,I have always been a thinker,searching for answers to difficult questions.

    I feel has you do that he is tolerant man and writes with conviction.But there was a time, he admits, that he had no convictions.It took a tragedy for him to reach certain conclusions then write about them.I have not yet read "A Grief Observed",which I am told was the turning point for him.I do not dismiss him,I will continue to read him,and then we will see,where I can agree with his thinking on matters.

    Blueblades

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    Back when I was a Witness, I read the Screwtape Letters. I really enjoyed them, and I wished that the Watchtower Society published material that was half as interesting or thought-provoking.

    Mere Christianity was one of the books I read after deciding to leave the WT, when I was trying to decide whether to remain a Christian or not. I found it very unconvincing. Lewis has a habit of presenting false dilemmas. For example, he cavalierly dismissed any ideas other than rigid theism or atheism. Agnosticism--the idea that we don't have all the answers--seems not to have even been in his vocabulary.

    Lewis' idea of Christianity is also pretty fundamentalist. He excoriated liberal scholars with probably more passion than he did atheists. I think that if a skeptic is actually interested in considering the Christian viewpoint, they'll get a lot more out of a book by a liberal scholar; and probably one with philosophical or theological credentials (Lewis had neither; he was a professor of literature).

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    I tried the screwtape letters when i was going to churches, but couldn't get into it.

    SS

  • lisaBObeesa
    lisaBObeesa

    Blueblades,

    I read The Problem of Pain a few years ago (when I was agnostic I guess you would call it) and while I didn't agree with all I read in it, it did change my mind about the 'problem of pain'. For the first time, I could see how there could be a reason God would allow pain. Please tell more about what about the book you didn't like. For me, the basic Christian answer the question of why there is pain in the world was one I had never been exposed to. I had only been exposed the JW answer to the question, and I didn't buy that! The answers Lewis presented actually made sense to me...well, most of them. It really had a big impact on me and opened my mind to the idea that #1) I didn?t really understand Christianity and #2) maybe there was a god. Maybe!

    Then I read Mere Christianity...and again Lewis made sense to me. This book changed my whole idea of Christianity. And that is good, because the JWs really twisted stuff! In a way, these two books made it possible for me to become a Christian.

    Euphemism,

    I think Lewis is very liberal! I don't see him as fundamentalist at all. Why do you feel he is fundamentalist?

    So many here have said that Lewis 'isn't logical'. Please help me to see what you are talking about, because I want to see what you are seeing and see if I agree or not.

    Thanks,

    -LisaBObeesa

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism
    I think Lewis is very liberal! I don't see him as fundamentalist at all. Why do you feel he is fundamentalist?

    I'm not sure whether or not he believed in the full historical inerrancy of the Bible, but he seemed to support it for all practical purposes. He believed in the literal truth of the Incarnation, and of Jesus' miracles. He accepted the doctrine of the Fall of Man and the Ransom, so I assume that he believed literally in the Adam & Eve story (although I could be wrong about that). He held to traditional Christian sexual morality--no premarital sex, no divorce (I'm not sure whether or not he recognized the adultery exemption).

    I think that's a good list for starters.

    (BTW, Lewis didn't consider himself liberal. I might be able to find some quotes for you... but he expressed great disdain for "liberal theologians." Those are his words.)

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    For me, the basic Christian answer the question of why there is pain in the world was one I had never been exposed to.

    I didn't realize there was a "basic Christian answer" to the question of why there is pain in the world. It's not a subject clarified in the bible (not that much is clarified in the bible).

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl

    This thread has reminded me to dig out The Problem of Pain and Mere Christianity and reread them. Its that long since I did that I haven't any comments.

    Apart from the Narnia books, C S Lewis also wrote a SF/fantasy trilogy: Out of the Silent Planet, Voyage to Venus (Perelandra) and That Hideaous Strength. This trilogy is also rich in the christian allegory so eveident in The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Lisa:

    Then I read Mere Christianity...and again Lewis made sense to me. This book changed my whole idea of Christianity. And that is good, because the JWs really twisted stuff! In a way, these two books made it possible for me to become a Christian.

    And I think this may often be the problem. Many times we interpret new information with old, JW-worn, tired eyes. Taking a fresh look at things is difficult but can yield the best results IMHO.

    REM: I have "Mere Christianity" in hand, this very moment (and it's making typing difficult, I can tell you), so I'd be interested to hear where you feel it falls down (if you don't mind, that is).
    I understand Abaddon has been reading it, too.

    Euph:Does that make me a fundamentalist, then? I agree with most of those doctrines, and wouldn't lay the claim of being "liberal", either.

  • rem
    rem

    LT,

    Frankly I don't even know where to start... I guess at the beginning. The whole book - the whole entire argument - is based on the foundation that there is such a thing as a Universal Moral Law. It seems to me that Lewis just assumes this is true and does little to actually try and prove it. At best he shot down some weak strawmen against his position. At worst he totally contradicted himself by claiming that some people don't know this Universal Moral Law and have to learn it. Why should I continue reading the rest of the book when the founding premise is so weak (I'll finish it anyway hehe).

    Other things he says are silly to me. He dismisses atheism because it's "too simple". He likens it to fish who don't know they are wet - atheism can't be true because if life really had no meaning then we wouldn't know it. That is bizarre thinking to me... a non sequeter if I've ever heard one. Then - no more discussion about atheism. That was the nail in the coffin for it.

    Then he goes on to talk about good and evil (dualism). He claims that nobody can do bad for the sake of doing bad - they have to be doing bad things to pursue what is actaully good (power, sexual pleasure, etc.). He never explains why power and sexual pleasure are "good" and not neutral. He just assumes it's true. He also starts talking about a higher standard that would be beyond both the all good god and the all bad god. Well, doesn't that mean that the Christian god would also be held to a higher standard and doesn't actually "decide" what is good and bad? Then isn't god subbordinate to a higher law?

    There are many many more things I've come accross just in barely the first half of the book. You are right - he does make you think. I haven't pondered these subjects in a few months - but they are nothing new (at least if you frequent JWD) ;)

    Too me, he just makes way too many assumptions and expects you to see them as naturally as he can - as if his beliefs are somehow self evident. The tone of his writing reminds me of my weekly home bible study with my parents out of the "Great Teacher" book. After almost every paragraph I'm saying "but... but... but..." but he quickly runs off to a new topic as if the last one was neatly taken care of in it's entirety.

    I'll finish it... and it is a very easy read, but I have to say that I definitely am not impressed with his logic. The problem being that this is supposed to be a book that appeals to a thinking atheist. I think this book would only appeal to the weakest sort of atheist - someone who doesn't know much about science, philosophy, logic, and maybe even religion and who is just areligious because of their lack of exposure to such things.

    What did you get out of this book? I don't necessarily want to get down to page and paragraph, but I'm curious about your thoughts on it. Do you think I'm off the mark with my criticism? Did this book or any other apolgist writings influence your views about Christianity to a great extent? I have to admit that this is probably the first apologetic work I've read since being a JW (besides excerpts). Maybe there is a more "atheist friendly" tomme out there. :)

    rem

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism
    Does that make me a fundamentalist, then? I agree with most of those doctrines, and wouldn't lay the claim of being "liberal", either.

    I guess I'm a tad surprised that you wouldn't describe yourself as 'liberal', Little Toe. You've always struck me as being pretty humanistic.

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