WAR begins.

by lastmanstanding 104 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    “Illegally” I do not think you know what that means. Trump announced what he was going to do. He did it despite plenty people here in this thread predicting he would not, he ended the nuclear threat, despite plenty of people here in this thread making prophecies about how Iran would prevail as some biblical beast that opposes the West.

    However even before the US ended the Iranian ayatollah’s regional reign, Europe was already starting discussions about a post-theocratic Iran. The last 48 hours, Iran’s political structure is collapsing, women are now openly, in the streets of Tehran, not wearing their hijab and cutting their hair short. Tomorrow multiple nations will start officially discussing the transition and potential future with the government-in-exile of Iran.

    Now that the smoke has cleared and the sun has risen, the mountain where their nuclear program was hidden is no more. Like you can see it from space that the thing is gone.

    And you know this all started, not with Trump, not with Biden, not with Obama or Bush. This started with Jimmy Carter, who let the current regime in Iran take over and run roughshod over the US, because he didn’t like that he would have to threaten someone. They don’t play in the structure of communist idealism like the Democrats in the west are permitted to do. People don’t think “like us” they don’t care about their lives or their children “like us”, this has been true of virtually every other non-Western culture, multi-culturalism does not exist, they don’t believe in the sanctity of life or the individual.

  • Journeyman
    Journeyman

    Anony Mous - not a word you have said has indicated that any of what has happened has been "legal" in international terms.

    "Announcing what you are going to do" does not make it legal.

    "Keeping your word" to do something that is illegal does not make it legal.

    Hitting them because they are bad people - which seems to be most of the justification against the Iranian regime (and was the same flawed idea against Saddam in Iraq) does not make it legal (nor, as we saw in Iraq, does it mean things will be "better" soon and the ordinary people necessarily better off).

    Remember, it was primarily the USA and UK that defined what was supposed to be "legal" on the international scene after WWII. So WE are supposed to be the ones to uphold international "order", not ride roughshod over it whenever we feel like it. That "ORDER" is supposed to be OURS in origin - based on enlightened, Judeo-Christian, moral principles. (Allegedly.)

    Of course, the reality is that we HAVE often just done whatever we wanted, BUT until recently, we have at least tried to show a pretence or slightly use the tools and institutions we ourselves put in place.

    We can't blame the "Commies" or the Muslims for the world order that WE established, yet we and our allies are the ones that seem to violate it most blatantly these days!

    During the first Iraq crisis Bush Snr went to the UN, during the second Bush Jnr at least made a pretence of going via the UN (with his pet Blair at his side) - but this time?

    By allowing Israel to blatantly violate international law repeatedly at will over Gaza and the West Bank, and now Iran - and then on top that, the President of the USA deciding to arbitrarily strike inside another sovereign nation, means all pretence of obeying any kind of rule of law except "I'll do what I want" has gone out of the window. Trump didn't bother to consult Congress before taking action either (naturally).

    Now consider how nations opposed to the West (or perhaps more importantly, those who are more neutral, who could be persuaded either way) might react.

    Once again, they will see the collective West acting with complete hypocrisy: expecting non-Western nations to abide by treaties and law and the rulings of international bodies, yet ignoring those whenever it sees fit.

    The likely response of our enemies? While none can face off against the USA in a direct head-to-head, their advantage is with what is known as "asymmetrical warfare" - many of those states and their populations have the means to sow terror and chaos in the West and against Western assets and people around the world.

    Asymmetrical warfare is something which the USA is particularly poorly equipped to handle, as we've seen from conflicts from Vietnam onwards. It doesn't matter how much tech you have or how big your military are, if you can be attacked by kids with AK47s or women with suicide vests, for example.

    I really do think that by acting as they do today, the likes of Netanyahu and Trump are sowing the wind (while other major leaders stand around wringing their hands rather than speaking out decisively), and we will all reap the whirlwind.

    All this immature talk of the US having "a long memory" and "getting revenge for the Iran hostage crisis" which I'm hearing a lot is also hideously ill-advised. Maybe now, other countries will exercise their "right" to take "revenge" on the USA and the west for their perceived long standing grievances too, since that seems to be the "new world order" Trump is operating in? Maybe the downing of the Iran Air passenger jet by the USS Vincennes in 1988? Or the various war crimes in Iraq, like those at Abu Ghraib? As the old quote goes: "An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind."

    Sheer madness.

    And ultimately, it only postpones the inevitable: which is that eventually - maybe in 2 years, maybe in 5, maybe in 10 - some officials will have to get around a table and reach an agreement about what Iran can and can't do with nuclear energy. Monitors will have to go in, checks will have to be done, and so on. The same with other dubious world powers acquiring potential WMD. We can't just keep bombing our way out of it and thinking that solves the issue. It's the only way in the long term, but progress to that end is made massively more complicated by rushing in to use the military now. Sooner or later, if we keep behaving like this a regime that has the bomb, or is on the brink of it, will see how the West acts now and will strike first before it gets struck, because they will know the West cannot be trusted to abide by its own rules.

  • lastmanstanding
    lastmanstanding

    I’m not going to address the doubters and the mockers. The future will take care of them.

    …whats next?

    C H I N A

    Will Xi allow China to fall over dead? China faces a huge problem if America gets away with what they have done. China is dependent on Iranian oil. And this brings us finally into the breach.

    Uncle Sam wants to take over ALL of the world and THAT my friends is the real reason for the bombing of Iran.

    So, I am waiting for the “news from the east and the north” Daniel 11:44

    Now I am going to guess.

    China will provide an anti-ship missile to Iran and Iran will successfully use it to sink a US Carrier sending 5000 souls ‘to kingdom come’.

    This will send Trump and the neocons spinning and seeking “a coalition of the willing” via Article 5 of NATO and then finally we are there, at the best part of the story.

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    Journeyman makes good points. Some people seem to think that if you drop a few bombs, then it's problem solved - game over.

    These kinds of actions breed hatred-fuelled revenge. Iran is set back for now - maybe. What about in a year or two from now? Is it rinse and repeat?

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Journeyman and JoJo,

    You guys are nuts.

    The Iran regime exists for the purpose of genosiding Israel, the "little Satan". After that, they they want to kill the "big Satan" - The USA.

    The Iranian regime is welcome to all the delusions they want to engage in. That is a Judeo-Christian ethic. But now, they are are without a nuclear program to carry out their religious delusional murders..... which is also a Judeo-Christian ethic.

    Eye for an eye & Do unto others... It doesn't get done perfectly, but its a good model for freedom.




  • lastmanstanding
    lastmanstanding

    It appears that there are several suitors to supply Iran with nukes.

    It’s just a matter of time.

    Once Iran has nukes, then the ride of the white Horse (Rev.6) is over. Then the US will have a hissy fit.

    The days for USA dwindle down.

  • lastmanstanding
    lastmanstanding

    So, my comments concerning Iran being ‘provided’ nuclear weapons drew criticism on this board and I have said that the future will take care of these critics.

    The future has arrived swiftly.

    Several countries ready to supply nuclear warheads to Iran’: Top Putin aide amid US strikes on Tehran”

  • Journeyman
    Journeyman
    The Iran regime exists for the purpose of genosiding Israel, the "little Satan". After that, they they want to kill the "big Satan" - The USA.

    Again: having unstable regimes in the world that need managing and occasionally controlling does not justify ignoring international law (including going against your own previous leaders and policies), if you don't want to set yourself up for a lot of mess in the longer term.

    The USA could've learned from the mistakes of the British when they had an Empire. Instead, they've behaved even worse and even more aggressively on the world scene when given the chance, and as a result - surprise! - they've attracted to themselves even more hostile enemies.

    Of course regimes like Iran, North Korea, etc, need watching closely and concerted effort to prevent them from going overboard, but doing that by arbitrary military actions does not win supporters from neutral nations and just guarantees decades more hostility in the region, especially when other regional actors and new generations of their populations also see how blatantly Israel is allowed to act in the region with no consequences for any atrocities or breaches of international law on their part.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard
    Of course regimes like Iran, North Korea, etc, need watching closely and concerted effort to prevent them from going overboard..

    What constitutes "going overboard"? I feel like that's a vague guideline. If Iran were to 'go overboard', what would that look like?

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    Imagine a JW. I true believer. On the scale of belief and fervor, this JW is set at maximum. He lives at the KH, practically. Always out in service, and ties each and every conversation topic back to Jehovah and the WT.

    Now, remove from this imaginary JW the moral belief that he should not kill. Also remove from him the belief that God will judge the world later at Armageddon, and add the belief that there is an imperative command from God himself to be the real instrument of His justice right now, so that "the entire world is for Jah".

    Now remove from this JW the belief that he should not remain neutral in politics, and add the belief that the WT org is the only real and valid source of political authority, and only it should rule.

    Now multiply this JW by a billion or so, replace WT with "Islam" and give them guns, rockets, tanks.

    Welcome to the middle east.

    Would you like this version of the GB to get a nuke too? Is there any doubt, if thats what drives them, they wouldn't use it?

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