Have I missed it or have we not discussed the move by France to forbid the wearing of religious symbols and garb in public schools? I.E. no hijab (scarves worn by Muslim women) or kippot (the beanies worn my Orthodox Jewish males). How do you feel about this?
Religious Freedom
by Yerusalyim 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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FlyingHighNow
Yeru,
What is France's purpose in banning these things? Is it to discriminate? If so, then it's not very fair. If it is to keep religious expression completely out of the schools, maybe, but it smacks of Soviet Russia and even Red China to me. Are they thinking of going that direction?
Heather
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Yerusalyim
You'd have to ask France for their rationale behind this...I'm not sure what it is...I see it as discrimination, of trying to keep religion completely out of the public sector. That's just me though.
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FlyingHighNow
Could it be like schools banning certain colors because they are used by certain gangs as an identifying mark? Gang colors could be provacitive, right? Maybe religious garb could be, too and so officials want any problems fixed before they have a chance to begin. I don't know because I only heard about this when I read your first comment there.
Heather
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Yerusalyim
Heather,
From the perspective of this article it seems secularization is the issue.
December 12, 2003
BY ELAINE GANLEY
ASSOCIATED PRESSPARIS -- A presidential commission backed a ban on Islamic head scarves in public schools Thursday -- stepping into the wrenching debate over how to preserve the country's secular identity while integrating France's Muslim population, the largest in western Europe.
If it becomes law, the measure also would bar other conspicuous religious symbols, including Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses. The commission spent six months studying the issue and held 120 hearings.
French President Jacques Chirac, who in the past has made clear his opposition to head scarves in the classroom, is expected to announce in an address to the nation Wednesday whether he supports enacting the panel's recommendations into law.
For nearly 15 years, France has debated the issue, but it has taken on new life during the past two years with the expulsion of dozens of girls from school for refusing to remove their scarves.
Bernard Stasi, who headed the commission, said the proposed law was aimed at keeping France's strict secular underpinnings intact and at countering "forces that are trying to destabilize the country," a reference to Muslim fundamentalists.
Stasi said the commission was not discriminating against France's Muslim community but seeking to give all religions an equal footing.
The panel recommended a ban from classrooms of all "obvious" political and religious symbols, including Islamic head scarves, Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crucifixes. More discreet symbols, such as small crosses, would be acceptable, it said.
Muslims represent 7 percent of France's 60 million people; the country's Jewish community -- also western Europe's largest -- is about 1 percent of the population.
Until now, the only policy on head scarves in schools came from the Council of State, France's highest administrative body, which has said they can be banned if they are of an ostentatious character, a judgment left to each school.
The Muslim head scarf is but one aspect of the conflict between religion and the secular culture, the panel found. Without naming a particular religion, the report cited examples of male students refusing to take oral exams from female teachers and men refusing to allow their wives to be treated by male doctors.
There also has been an alarming rise in anti-Semitic attacks, and teaching about the Holocaust "becomes impossible" in some classrooms, the report said.
The report did offer some concessions to religion, proposing the addition of one Jewish and one Muslim holiday to the school calendar and creating a national institute to study Islam.
Religious leaders reacted cautiously. The Conference of Bishops of France said it would reserve judgment until Chirac announces his conclusions.
The Protestant Federation of France said the report "seems acceptable."
In a letter earlier this week to Chirac, the Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches said the nation needs to do a better job of integrating Muslims into French society, and an anti-head-scarf law would not achieve that goal.
Moise Cohen, president of the Consistoire of Paris, which directs religious Jewish life, said Thursday he opposes a head scarf law because it could be viewed by Muslims as discriminatory.
The French Council for the Muslim Faith, an umbrella group representing France's Muslims, appeared to reject the commission's report, although in mild terms. The council said it agreed with the positions of the Jewish and Christian religious leaders opposing the ban.
The head-scarf debate also has emerged elsewhere in Europe along with Muslim immigration:
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elamona
There is a modicum of religious freedom now in France but this won't last. As the Islamization of Europe takes place during the 21st century Christianity, Judism, and other religions will be replaced by the Muslims. They are the only one's having children in sufficient numbers to affect the population trends. That coupled with Muslim immigration into Europe will see a Muslim France by the 22nd century. Then all who are not Muslim will be forced out thru various means just like the middle east. There are very few Christians, Jews and other religions in Muslim countries. They speak tolerance but practice extermination of all non Muslims.
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maxwell
I've heard it is secularization as well. I don't think religion has any place in schools or government, but this seems to be going overboard. I wonder what is the stand on wearing a cross. Generally, I don't think any piece of clothing or jewelry should be cause for alarm or instability. If some non-muslim gets angry because they see a muslim wearing their head-covering, or someone anti-semitic is upset to see a skull cap, the problem isn't with the person's non-threatening way of practicing of their religion. The problem is the intolerance of the non-muslim or the anti-semitic. It is a social problem. And while you can't dictate how someone feels when they see these symbols of faith, schools should be able to demand that kids act sociably and orderly. Demanding that kids remove their religious garb isn't the way to deal with it.
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blondie
I repllied on another thread that I found this strange in view of the religious garb of nuns and priests in the public sector. Would that be banned too? What about the Amish and the Mennonites in the US? Or Sikhs?
Blondie
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A Paduan
It's a shame that fundamentalist religions like jws and fundamentlist islamics act so much like gangs that the gov't requires such broad measures.
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Mulan
In yesterday's newspaper, there was an article about the turban Sikh men wear, and that France was including those in their decision.