by sosad1 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hello all - Long ago i posted under sosad..... cant get back under that name so hello again.
i though i remember in hte last couple of years that there was a change in the strict practice of Not clinking glasses and toasting,,, that it was more of a conscience decision.
Was i dreaming this? any help towards printed information on this subject is very much appreciated.
Toasting today may not be viewed by many as a religious gesture. Still, there are valid reasons why Christians do not share in toasting, which has a religious background and even now can be viewed as asking ‘heaven’ for a blessing, as if seeking aid from a superhuman force.—Exodus 23:2.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007128#h=1:0-11:881
That is the most recent thing on toasting I can find (Stay in Gods Love is newer, but simply refers to this article without adding info)
The article I quote from is an excellent example of how to contradict yourself. Basically there are no real arguments but 'Watchtower says so'. Which may be why some have taken that as 'without Bible base objections, it's a matter of conscience'.
That reference uses Exodus 23:2 as a scriptural reference supposedly to back up the thought that just because others do it, ignorant of any possible symbolism, that's no reason for Witnesses to do it.
The verse says:
You must not follow after the crowd to do evil, and you must not pervert justice by giving testimony to go along with the crowd.
Even this verse suggests a link with a legal application. This becomes clear with the context. Here are verses 1-3:
You must not spread* a report that is not true. Do not cooperate with a wicked one by becoming a malicious witness. 2 You must not follow after the crowd to do evil, and you must not pervert justice by giving testimony to go along with the crowd. 3 You must show impartiality in the dispute of a poor person.
This is obviously related to prohibitions on perverting the course of justice by either giving false testimony, being swayed by the crowd to change evidence or not being impartial with evidence regardless of the social and material standing of the accused.
Accepted, there is a principle that says you don't have to do something just to follow the crowd but there is no other scriptural evidence that specifically prohibits or even questions the appropriateness of toasting. If the WTS was consistent in it's application of prohibitions to everything that had some potentially pagan source then perhaps it would be reasonable but they are not. Even the above WT reference uses examples like pomegranates and the raising of hands to illustrate that other things may be construed to have a pagan association yet were acceptable.
Just like things like blood the logic is inconsistent and without foundation. As Anders says... it is wrong because the WTS says so. I don't think I've ever come across a Witness that does it and claims it's a matter of conscience however I may just give it go sometime just for a laugh.
Toasting can 'even now can be viewed as asking ‘heaven’ for a blessing, as if seeking aid from a superhuman force'.
Yeah, JW don't like seeking aid from superhuman forces at all. It's not like they ever ask God through Jesus to help them out with angels and holy spirit...
Prost!
Toasting can 'even now can be viewed as asking ‘heaven’ for a blessing, as if seeking aid from a superhuman force'.
Do they ever listen to themselves? What the deuce do jws do before a meal if not ask "heaven for a blessing ....seeking aid from a superhuman force"?!! Good grief I give up.
Its wrong because it wrong because its wrong because It wrong.
Thank you all. my JW family now says Cheers and clinks glasses with the non jw members. Probably for the past 4/5 years
who knows why.....I don't imagine they would do it with other JW's present but who knows
I have always thought the most dangerous aspect of clinking glasses was inadvertently breaking one or more of them.
On an even more ridiculous note: Imagine being killed at Armageddon because, even though you were a loyal Witness, you clinked your glass with worldly people.
Moreover, the wedding ring at one time had religious significance. Yet, most people today do not know that, considering a wedding ring a mere evidence that someone is married.
From the above cited 2007 Questions from Readers.
Note the toned down language about the origins of wedding rings. What this excerpt fails to focus on is the wedding ring had significance among "the pagans". Funny how JW org brings out the word "pagans" when it suits and leaves it out when it involves a practice that JWs engage in such as using wedding rings.
Is toasting or clinking glasses a disfellowshipping offence?
