by NotFormer 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Matthew 5:41 (NWT) "...and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile,* go with him two miles."
A member of the Roman occupying forces could command a local to carry their pack for a mile. The local was thus pressed into a form of military service. It was basically conscription. Jesus had no problem with it.
It's even phrased "compels you into service" in the NWT.
How do the JWs get around this?
This is discussed in an article If You Are Impressed Into Service in the February 15, 2005 Watchtower. The primary points are :
Matthew 5:41 was not referring to either military service or conscription in the sense that one is conscripted into miltary service as a member of the armed forces. It was more like a form of tax whereby compulsory work could be demanded from the population on a regular or exceptional basis. An example would be Simon of Cyrene who was "impressed into service" to carry Jesus' stauron (Matthew 27:32).
NotFormer: How do the JWs get around this?
It depends on who was making the rules at any given moment. There have been times when it was okay to do anything short of enlisting, and there have been times when even providing products or services to a military base was forbidden. Ray Franz described this in Crisis of Conscience, when he explained how one brother had a job delivering drinks to different businesses and to a military base. The GB, at the time, decided that this was immoral and the brother decided to look for work elsewhere.
When I was 18, I registered for the selective service, which made me eligible for the draft in the USA. This was not considered immoral. Had I been drafted, I was expected to refuse to serve and accept any consequences of that stance. I think that this was less of an issue by that time (1986), as the US military had realized that draftees tended to be of such low quality as to be better off left alone.
But always remember, you can justify a broad range of directives by selecting some Bible verses and omitting others.
JWs and Constipation/
Without my glasses I mis-read the thread's title..🤔
The WT hypocrisy in this matter is that they concede "legitimate service" and yet they sent thousands of people to prison by refusing "civilian service in lieu".
Regarding this,,,please read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz..
Its an excellent,,interesting read on this entire thread.
Lives ruined because some grifters in New York couldn't make up their minds.
NotFormer : The WT hypocrisy in this matter is that they concede "legitimate service" and yet they sent thousands of people to prison by refusing "civilian service in lieu".
There is a difference between "legitimate service" as a form of tax, and civilian service in lieu of military service. Not everyone feels about it the same way, but some (including myself) feel that accepting alternative service in lieu of military service recognises an obligation to the military. Some conscientious objectors during the second world war were willing to work as stretcher-bearers, ambulance drivers etc. Others held the view that doing so was effectively enabling those in the armed forces to be soldiers instead of attending to the wounded and dead. Essentially, it is a matter of conscience and each must carry his own load.
@Earnest: I think the point being made here is that the JW cult leaders have on various occasions had various prescriptions about this conscientious objector thing. In my lifetime you initially couldn’t do anything including civil government service, you had to go to jail regardless of the options offered, even though government employment separately from a conscription alternative was permitted. It made no sense, but I know people that were in jail for anywhere from 1-10 years until it was eventually declared in the 90s that JWs could do work for governments in lieu of military services, this had the effect that people were serving in jail while the JW policy had changed, and they were then side-stepped for various duties because they couldn’t do certain things (eg. be the accounts elder) with a criminal record due to newer guidance from WTBTS.
And then before I left in the 2000-2010s you were permitted to accept a full time job in civilian service for police/military units as long as you didn’t carry a weapon. Those people that served hard time and got a record for the rest of their lives were very bitter about these changes.
The question is about the fact that ‘no light’ declared various things when Jesus/Paul was pretty clear that you could be conscripted into aiding the government.
IMHO everything you do for government from paying taxes to conscription into the military is a form of government aid. Money is fungible, most of your income tax money does not go toward helping other people or building roads, there are separate (road and fuel) taxes for that so the idea that somehow it’s okay to pay your taxes but not aid in the military is backwards.
Carrying a Roman soldier's pack for a mile recognises an obligation to the military. Were roles directly supporting the military the only ones offered "in lieu"? Your either/or dichotomy is false. Non-combatant roles that support the military aren't the only options. In most countries, civilian service in lieu can be things like building roads or working in national parks or community service in general. For the most part, no different from working in a country's civil service/public service; a government job.
The WT unnecessarily forced it's loyal followers to become criminals based on its unbiblical false logic.
Anony Mous : the idea that somehow it’s okay to pay your taxes but not aid in the military is backwards.
AM, I accept most of what you say, although it is new to me that a criminal record due to "neutrality" would bar one from having certain responsibilities. That's anal. But on the matter of taxes, some conscientious objectors (not JWs) have refused to pay the proportion of their taxes they believed went towards the military. I considered that but concluded that Jesus' statement on tax (Matthew 22:17-21) settled any reservations about what the tax might be spent on.
NotFormer : In most countries, civilian service in lieu [of military service] can be things like building roads, etc.
Jesus was not talking about doing something in lieu of military service. I gave the example of Simon of Cyrene who was compelled (ἠγγάρευσαν) to carry Jesus' stauron, the same word (ἀγγαρεύσει) Jesus used at Matthew 5:41. This was not in lieu of an alternative. If you do some work in lieu of military service, you are recognising your obligation to perform military service and substituting some other work. As Anony Mous points out, this is the viewpoint the Watchtower held and nothing was acceptable in lieu of military service, including paying a fine. In 1996 it was made clear that it is a matter of conscience whether or not one accepts work instead of military service. The conscience of the great majority has since allowed them to perform alternative service, but that is human nature for you. The principles have not changed, but with the variety of governmental responses to conscientious objectors and the fact that many young men didn't understand the nuances of refusing alternative service, the issue is more that of conscience than a clear scriptural mandate.
