"The Word" includes the book Vindication! (page 3)

jwfacts

What an incredible quote, claiming these books to be revelations of truth. And then they say out the other side of their mouths that are not inspired.

Listener

Simon says - I would much prefer that you tell us about your friendship with Ray Franz and why you believe he wanted to go back to the ways of Rutherford.

It is not up to me to say definitively where holy spirit is operating or not operating, at best I can only state where I might feel it is or isn't operating.

Does his HS operate over the Wtbts? I have no reason to believe that God would not use his HS on occasions just as he might over any other organisation.

truthseeker100

Does his HS operate over the Wtbts? I have no reason to believe that God would not use his HS on occasions just as he might over any other organisation.

I wonder if his holy spirit could be acting through me? I don't think so ROTFLMAO!!

DATA-DOG

By "modern bible students" do you actually mean the Bible Students who split from the WTBTS, as if their faulty interpretations somehow excuse the WTBTS?

As far as revision of beliefs is concerned, when you aren't making shit up, you don't have to back-track. Many xian denominations never revise anything. Why? They have never claimed to have all the answers, or be the one true religion, or degraded every other faith like the WTBTS.

When you accept the Bible, espescially the New Testament as it is, you will believe that there is a God. There is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The three are linked in some way, ( humble Xians aren't dogmatic about it ) and Xians are rewarded with everlasting life in heaven. That is what the Bible really teaches, whether or not it's true.

If you stick to what the Bible says, instead of trying to create a new religious brand to sell, then there is nothing to revise and no reason to lie about past teachings. It's pretty simple when you think about it.

You're welcome! 😁

DD

SimonSays

As far as revision of beliefs is concerned, when you aren't making shit up, you don't have to back-track. Many xian denominations never revise anything. Why? They have never claimed to have all the answers, or be the one true religion, or degraded every other faith like the WTBTS. DD

Well, this would make it, your strong personal opinion; wouldn’t it? But in all “honesty” a false premise since all religions have a strong belief, God’s Holy Spirit flows in them.

Example 1: http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-divinity-of-the-holy-spirit

Just this one. I don’t need emotions to cloud my judgement. The only religions that I know of, that don’t depend on God’s HS are, Scientology, Jainism, which is tied to atheism, and just a few more. Your own reasoning is flawed when you stipulate other religions don’t express their own true divinity. The WTS just makes it available to the public, since they have nothing to hide. Following this topic. I believe that is the point, I’m making about the WTS Publications. Nothing religiously new.

In ancient times, how many revisions did the Israelites have to go through, every time they sinned? Did God allow his chosen people to stagnate on it understanding? (Correction) Once again, let’s not let emotion carrying us off to just drastic opinions. What I was referring to, was substance on the claim of knowing definitively how, you presume to know about God’s HS, and where he directs his HS to whom. That is my simple interest.

If you can’t answer the question, then simply don’t. I’m didn’t come into your debate to argue. You guys enjoy your day. Thank you

I would much prefer that you tell us about your friendship with Ray Franz and why you believe he wanted to go back to the ways of Rutherford. Listener

Perhaps one day you will read about it. As for now, well it seems DD got temperamental, and that was not my objective. Best to You!!!!!!!!

DATA-DOG

Uh....you're the one who brought other religions into this, not me. You mentioned Bible Students in a derogatory way, asserting that they were in the wrong becuase they need to make revisions and won't. ( I'm not exactly sure because you did not answer that question.)

I have never heard of any religion denouncing all other religions of the world as "false" besides JWs, although I'm sure some wacko cult may teach that. Sure, Catholicism has done horrendous things, just like other Xian sects, and those people will be judged. Now, can I say that there is absolutely no Holy Spirit at work in Catholicism? No, of course not.

For the record, I never said there was no Holy Spirit in the WTBTS. I simply pointed out your flawed logic when you used bible students as one extrememe to justify the WTBTS's failed predictions. You obviously don't understand what I wrote, otherwise you would not have written such a convoluted response in an effort to show that my logic was flawed.

Then you speak of "ancient times" and revisions?? What are you talking about? Name one, just one doctrinal revision in ancient times that was enacted by the nation of Israel. Name just one changed teaching in the OT that the Israelites could have stagnated on? There were none.

I'm assuming that you are referring to the bad behavior of the Israelites, for which they were punished? That's not even the same topic. We're discussing the constant false prophecy and teachings of the WTBTS, not the disobedience of the ancient Israelites. There were no misunderstandings to stagnate on. They willfully disobeyed and they were punished. They knew the "doctrine" of YHWH, they just did not follow it. You are trying to compare apples to oranges in a futile attempt to defend your faulty reasoning.

If calling attention to your faulty logic is being "temperamental", then you must meet many temperamental people when you have religious discussions. Don't forget to count your time and your return visits! 😁

DD ( Again, you're welcome! )

SimonSays

Then you speak of "ancient times" and revisions?? What are you talking about? Name one, just one doctrinal revision in ancient times that was enacted by the nation of Israel. Name just one changed teaching in the OT that the Israelites could have stagnated on? There were none.DD

Now you’re just pandering, but expected. The lack of knowledge, is the day you misunderstood, the biggest revision in Christendom of them all, Jesus Christ. Perhaps you would like to revisit the OT to confirm this, with Jesus making changes, if not eliminating the” Mosaic Law” The difference, they saw it and it was passed by word of mouth and personal actions, back then.

Can we say the same in modern times? No! Humanity has fallen further from the truth and imperfection. However, you are correct, you cannot compare apples and oranges when it comes to bible truth. The same difference JW’s started calling themselves differently. If you speak to a modern day bible student, as I have, they will deny JW’s doctrine, so would it be so different to expect the same? Consider speaking to one someday, their all over the world. They also have District conventions, they also celebrate everything Christendom does. I have one as a friend, just like friends of any other religion. Perhaps if you set your anger aside, you’ll be able to see the flaws in your logic. Maybe someday you’ll learn how off the mark you are, but in the meantime, please continue your hostility, I don’t mind. Like I said, I didn’t come here to debate how we “ALL” lack knowledge when it comes to bible truth, But Gods asks us to try. So why don’t we. Why hasn’t Christendom taken the calling like the WTS? My sole interest was in the Claim to personally now God’s HS and the Direction God takes, in applying it. But as in everything Christendom, it boils down to “Faith”. Remember, Every Religion has chastised the WTS, So, you cannot criminalize the WTS, That logic, is also flawed. Starting with Russell, when they came out, calling him a Charlatan, but then, so do you guys, it’s no different. That’s why I don’t dismiss his core value.

Again, Thank You. DD

The Searcher

Simonsays - (Psalm 26:4) "I do not associate with deceitful men, And I avoid those who hide what they are."

After 5 years of study, research, and discussions, (even with the Branch!) I reached the undeniable & provable conclusion that the WTBTS is as bad, if not worse than other religions.

Their lies and perversions of scripture condemn them, but their threats and sanctions prevent most J.W.'s from questioning, let alone examining what they are being told, as my still-in friends and family so clearly confirm.

If you're happy with the Org, why waste your time here? The "spiritual paradise" awaits!

DATA-DOG

Uhhhh..... I said, "doctrinal revisions......Old Testament.." Then you mention the NT and Jesus as an indication that I am operating under some misunderstanding. 😕

You specifically said, "...how many revisions did the Israelites have to go through, every time they sinned?"

Are you wanting to talk about sacred secrets that God revealed, or doctrinal revisions by humans that prove incorrect, or sinful behavior? Please pick one.

DD

fukitol

SimonSays clearly doesn't know shit from shovel. Appears to have the immature, rambling, incoherent critical thinking skills of a 16 year old.

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

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