Stop harassing jws

by pomo6780 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • pomo6780
    pomo6780

    We want people to learn TTATT. We have numerous resources online to draw jws in so that they will wake up. However, I've noted some radical methods that have been used by fellow exjws, and quite frankly, this must stop. There are better ways to wake up jws.

    Let me give you examples of what isn't smart and why. These aren't rules, but you will see the reason behind what I say.

    Confrontation. This may be you approaching a jw at a cart or while they are going in and out of their meeting places or conventions. While some will say this increases their persecution complex, I will say that in addition, it does have a damaging effect upon the mind. It's not normal for a total stranger to confront a person for their religious beliefs and use emotional tactics to win them over. A strange man speaking to a woman in the street could frighten her view of strangers. It has happened. Would we do that for jws? They don't deserve it, wouldn't we much rather want them on our side, unhurt by us?

    Emotional manipulation. If your wife or husband is still a jw, and you have kids who go to meetings. You don't want them to go. Fair enough. But how are you to know how they'll feel about it later in life? What if they as adults accuse you of manipulating them to be atheists, causing them to miss out on "freedom of worship"? I can say for cetainty from personal observation in the org, this has happened many times. Why tell them they should not get baptised at 13, 14, 15.. when they only find out later you planned ahead so that when they reached adulthood they would be discouraged and pressured into listening to your advice? Just be honest and say you never want them as baptised jws. Enough with toying with your kids lives, let them have the freedom you wished to have. This point I know, will get a lot of backlash. But I stand in my opinion that you either are a witness and automatically make a disciple out of your kid, or you become exjw and make sure your kid is an anti-witness. Same as the cult procedure, you're using their lives to become your personal vision for them.

    Better ways to tell TTATT.

    There are normal, respectful people in this world. However, many of us are damaged mentally or emotionally by trauma of abuse, neglect, or absolute abandonment. It is understandable then that some exjws will act in bizarre ways to shock some and please others. Instead of going into a meeting and disrupting its process by talking or shouting about child abuse, why not hand jws printed information in sealed envelopes? That could be the most discreet and effective way to fool naive minds. Instead of protesting in public, scare them in silent methods by arranging the media to publish information about child abuse in the Borg. Instead of approaching carts and verbally abusing jws, perhaps even pulling away or pushing over their carts, just walk past them. Ignore them. Let them die out by your not giving them attention. And as for your kids, feed them with doubts. As they get older, show them Cedars videos as they'll see a man who isn't a bitter 'apostate'. Don't push them for anything. They are their own people. You'll learn that when they have families of their own.

    This is not the community to be provoked, to attack others for their beliefs. It is a cult. But let's remember that they can change. We are proof of that.

  • goingthruthemotions
    goingthruthemotions

    So..... its OK for them to destroy families, shun people they say they once loved, Molest children.But, they can't have a dose of there own medicine? Really, they shouldn't throw stones if they live in glass houses.

    I have seen many cart videos, what is the first thing these cockroaches do? call the police, as if there first amendment rights are more import than anyone else.

    what about the rights of the people who leave this cult, who are suffering from shunning, who's families have been destroyed by this cult and survivors of molestation? the first amendment is for all.

    they get what they deserve, sometimes you have to hold a hand to the fire to help someone learn what the results are of the action.

    GTTM

  • waton
    waton
    Confrontation. This may be you approaching a jw at a cart.

    Jws have as matter of policy approached people at their doors, in the streets all the time, they are used to it, it can be done, if you are unknown to them in subtle ways. example

    On a resort Island approached a cart cherub, and said I have a bible question for you: Cain and Abel, what did Abel do with the leftover meat from the sacrifice-- answer: "discarded it."--" the dump perhaps?" -- "nn--jeah" " where the meat always went, because nobody even the dogs would eat it?" food -meat- for thought. hopefully.

  • cofty
    cofty
    Confrontation. This may be you approaching a jw at a cart

    I agree about not assaulting JWs but I find approaching JWs at carts to be very effective. I have had lots & lots of conversations with JWs at carts and I am certain I had a positive effect on at least a few. Keep it lighthearted, tease them with humour but there is no need to be nasty. Have a really good grasp of your topic and be concise. I had a great talk to a couple of JWs about evolution a few days ago in Edinburgh. The elder was being an arse but the younger lad was listening intently and asking genuine questions.

    Occasionally if I meet an especially patronising elder I will - calmly and quietly - let them have a full-on verbal assault. Winning them over doesn't always have to be our priority. Sometimes it's good to just vent.

    just walk past them. Ignore them

    A million times NO!

    Everybody walks past them and ignores them. You and I have the knowledge and skills to challenge them. Stop being so passive.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus

    Stop making sense. Nobody wants to hear whats logical and smart. Rage against rhe machine!!! Yell at little old cult ladies who have no influance on cult policy!!!! Yea for stupidity!

  • cofty
    cofty

    Morpheus - You are falling for the false dichotomy of the OP.

    Yelling at old ladies or walking past JWs at the carts is not the only two options.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    POMO6780:

    In reading your whole post, there are some things I'd like to comment on:

    I certainly don't agree with violence or frightening anybody. It also probably would be more effective if the media gave more coverage to JW scandals. I don't know if this will happen. Also, the suggestion of giving people a sealed envelope with information they can read in private (instead of disrupting a meeting) would be nice - assuming it doesn't end up in the garbage unread!

    Even though the behavior of some ex-JWs is unpleasant, the JW religion is very damaging. Some of these ex-JWs have lost everything including precious time and family members. I am lucky I was not raised a JW and had no family there and it was relatively easy for me to "fade". So, compared to other posters on this forum, I had less invested in the religion and less anger. But, I will tell off a JW adult under the right circumstances. Hopefully, their ego will be able to handle it.

    I get the sense you are a little overly concerned about the feelings of the JWs and feel everybody should tread lightly around them lest we hurt their feelings. I'm all for being peaceful but there is no easy answer to this.

  • jp1692
    jp1692

    POMO: Stop harassing jws ... quite frankly, this must stop.

    Or what?

    How do you not see that you are doing to us here EXACTLY what you are telling us not to do?

  • jp1692
    jp1692
    Double post
  • jwundubbed
    jwundubbed
    Confrontation. This may be you approaching a jw at a cart or while they are going in and out of their meeting places or conventions. While some will say this increases their persecution complex, I will say that in addition, it does have a damaging effect upon the mind. It's not normal for a total stranger to confront a person for their religious beliefs and use emotional tactics to win them over. A strange man speaking to a woman in the street could frighten her view of strangers. It has happened. Would we do that for jws? They don't deserve it, wouldn't we much rather want them on our side, unhurt by us?

    Actually, it is completely normal for a stranger to walk up to someone selling BS and confront them on selling the BS. The person at the cart isn't an innocent bystander. They are trying to get people to buy what they are selling. They are selling hatred, among all the other bad ideas. I see no reason not to confront the cart people. But actually, I have found it much safer for everyone involved to simply complain to whatever entity the JWs are using to sit with their carts. If it is the bus station, then I call the transit company. I inform and educate those people who then disallow the JWs to sit there with their carts.

    Emotional manipulation. If your wife or husband is still a jw, and you have kids who go to meetings. You don't want them to go. Fair enough. But how are you to know how they'll feel about it later in life? What if they as adults accuse you of manipulating them to be atheists, causing them to miss out on "freedom of worship"?

    Good parents don't refuse to protect their children because of what their kids will think of them. They protect their children and make the best choices they can for them while they are kids knowing their children will rarely thank them for it. Any parent who makes a poor choice for their child because they want to look better in their child's eyes doesn't deserve to be a parent.

    Why tell them they should not get baptised at 13, 14, 15.. when they only find out later you planned ahead so that when they reached adulthood they would be discouraged and pressured into listening to your advice?

    Parents don't tell their children not to get baptized that young so that they can control them through manipulation. They tell their children that because they are CHILDREN. The organization is asking them to sign a contract when they don't even have a basic understanding of how contracts work, nor do they understand what the contract means in JW terms. They are well below the age of consent and their brains are still in development. They don't have the processing skills to make the right choices for themselves and don't have enough information to make an informed choice. If they wait, they can make a fully informed choice.

    But I stand in my opinion that you either are a witness and automatically make a disciple out of your kid, or you become exjw and make sure your kid is an anti-witness. Same as the cult procedure, you're using their lives to become your personal vision for them.

    I don't know where to start with this rubbish.

    1.) God told his people to procreate and fill the earth so that they could dominate it. He did not tell his people to have children for the sole purpose of creating mindless gits. If you are a good disciple, you don't want to turn your children into disciples. You want to teach them to love God and do as he wishes from their own choice. Look at all the examples we were given of how important it is to choose God.

    2.) My father had four children. He started questioning when we were children. He never told us his reservations. He made us go to all the meetings, he made us research our own questions, and he gave us more than one side to any idea. Instead of trying to make us into something, he taught us to be our own persons. That is what a good parent should do. His youngest daughter is still a JW. She made her own choice. Three of his other children are exJWs, but it wasn't because of him. It was because of the JW cult.

    Instead of going into a meeting and disrupting its process by talking or shouting about child abuse, why not hand jws printed information in sealed envelopes?

    Because it isn't the responsibility of victims to make the perpetrators comfortable. Because when you have been abused and harmed you lash out. That is how people react. Because abuses shouldn't be hidden in sealed envelopes, they should be shouted out until everyone knows about them.

    That could be the most discreet and effective way to fool naive minds.

    You know, the current social backlash against sexual harassment and sexual assault by people in power is the direct result of the victims being discreet. Being discreet is not effective against powerful people. And we don't want to fool naive minds. We want to educate people and help them to make informed choices. Fooling people is just a way to manipulate people. It is much better to be open and transparent.

    Let them die out by your not giving them attention.

    JWs don't want our attention. Ignoring bullies only works when the bullies want attention. The JWs don't want outside attention. That is why you have to be loud. Publishing stories about them only educates the public. People on this inside just assume it is apostate and persecution.

    I don't advocate assaulting people. But I have no problem with people who are broadcasting the problems with the JWs in whatever way they feel necessary. I wouldn't advize those people to break the law, but the law hasn't been on the victims side for a long time.

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