Reddit Post: Watchtower Appeals to Supreme Court

by APieceOfShitNamedTate 31 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Vidiot

  lastmanstanding - "...They have convinced themselves that because they have won there before, they will win there every time..."

  They've conveniently forgotten that in the Rutherford era, they actually picked their fights quite shrewdly, based on tactics and the likelihood of victory...

  ...rather than blind ideological faith in their own inherent rightness, divine backing, and destiny.

  (I also suspect that if push came to shove, and the bOrg realized they were really on the ropes legally, they'd rather crash-and-burn rather than capitulate/reform... just like every other authoritarian regime in history.)
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  GoUnion

  I hope the supreme court refuses the watchtower appeal, the lower court got this right.
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  John Redwood

  Hey guys, thanks for opening this topic up for discussion here. I will be happy to answer any questions, time permitting. I have been working on this for quite some time- this is something we have been expecting ever since Watchtower lost the JW v Watchtower case in California in the trial court and in the appellate courts of California.
  
  Watchtower was held responsible for failing to produce the child abuse documents demanded by the plaintiff, and as a result a default judgment was issued in her favor of more than 4 million dollars.
  
  Watchtower has been paying a 6 million dollar bond on this case during the appeal process.
  
  Because they have lost all appeals in California- they are now taking this to the US Supreme Court, but the chances of it being heard are slim.
  
  Basically they are claiming that they are being abused by California and denied their constitutional right to keep their judicial hearings private, even when they involve child abuse allegations which by law must be reported to the authorities.
  
  They demand that the clergy-penitent exemption be applied to their elders notes and documents, and feel they are being unfairly discriminated against because their policies differ from those of the Catholic Church.

  I should have a JW Survey article up on Tuesday with more information
• 

  APieceOfShitNamedTate

  @John Redwood:

  Does this have something to do with the really big news that the other John mentioned? (If I type his whole name my post might disappear. I recently started another thread mentioning his name in the title. Guess what happened to it...)

  I'm pretty new so I didn't know any better. I just woke up last year.
  
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  John Redwood

  As for big news, this is not related to some of the other things I may have mentioned. At the moment I can't say anything further since there are a few things which involve criminal investigation and related matters. But trust me - there is no shortage of news and court cases to discuss, we have a lot to talk about. I think much of what is going on will have a very damaging effect on the organization for years and decades to come.
  
  Once JWs figure out that their organization has not been transparent with them - many will lose trust in the men they once thought were being guided by God.
• 

  smiddy3

  It cant happen soon enough John Redwood in my opinion.
• 

  Vidiot

  Redwood - "Basically they are claiming that they are being abused by California and denied their constitutional right to keep their judicial hearings private, even when they involve child abuse allegations which by law must be reported to the authorities."

  Reminds me of another court claim they made in a recent appeal...

  ... boiled down, that - essentially - they should have the right to use sex offenders as church representatives without having to tell anybody.

  
  

  Honestly...

  ...sometimes, I think the WTS's "worldy" lawyers are taking avantage of their clients.

  They certainly don't seem inclined to inform them when they're being stupid.

  
  
• 

  Finkelstein

  What the WTS is trying to do is stop the open availability of information through the lower courts to reveal information involving individuals of their membership with instances of pedophilia .

  The reason should be obvious, one being that having this information available to lawyers who are representing their clients would instill a preconceived awareness that this information could be presented in court and used against the WTS.
  

  The connecting cover up or non disclosure by the WTS is making the WTS legally at fault and libel .
  
• 

  FatFreek 2005

  John Redwood, we are all so very proud of you for keeping us informed.

  Len Miller
• 

  sir82

  They demand that the clergy-penitent exemption be applied to their elders notes and documents, and feel they

  are being unfairly discriminated against because their policies differ from those of the Catholic Church.

  I am about the farthest thing from an attorney, but I've never understood how the WTS can argue for "clergy penitent privilege" when, after an accusation of child abuse:

  -- The elder(s) who heard the confession / accusation report to the entire BOE that there is a confession / accusation

  -- The elders call the WTS legal department with the info

  -- The WTS legal department writes down all the info, and dog knows how many attorneys there confer to discuss the revealed details

  -- If the abuser is DF'ed, the Service Department finds out about it and keeps track of the name

  -- If the abuser moves to another congregation, the old congregation's "confidential files" follow him to the new congregation, where everyone on the BOE has access to read them

  There can easily be several dozen, maybe many dozens, of people who know all about the case. And all that is without the "elders tell their wives / kids / golf buddies everything" rumor mill that is sure to follow.
  

  Contrast that with real "clergy penitent privilege", where a single person confesses to a single priest who is duty-bound to never reveal the details to another person, ever.

  What is the legal basis for arguing "clergy-penitent privilege" in the procedure used by JWs?