Arguments I’ve Had: Historical Accuracy and the Bible

by Saethydd 16 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Saethydd
    Saethydd

    When I was a JW and still living with my parents I remember the way my father held what could almost be described as contempt for archeologists, paleontologists, and other scientists who dared to try explain what happened in past. He justified this attidtude with the argument that these people don’t have enough evidence to make such claims with any certainty.

    However, I see now that his viewpoint was more likely a defense mechanism to protect his presupposed conclusion that everything described in the Bible actually happened. I remember when I was making my exit from the cult I tried to explain my agnostic atheist position to my parents and it was like talking to a wall because no evidence I provided to prove the Bible was inaccurate was ever good enough for them. The evidence of scientists and historians in support of scenarios that don’t involve magic was just simply too outlandish for my parents to accept. Their entire narrative of history requires that miracles, magic, angles, and demons all influenced the world in very tangible ways in one particular geographic area in the distant past and between then and now such magical forces have stopped manifesting themselves in such obvious ways for no apparent reason.

    I’ve recent thought of an illustration that exemplifies the absurdity of such a position and thought I might share it. It’s kind like if someone was accused of stealing something from a store, but they insist that a magic gremlin put the stolen item in their bag, and then when video evidence is produced of the person in question stealing said object they insist that the gremlin used magic to alter the footage, and now that the gremlin has set him up it disappeared without a trace and will never be heard from again.

    In short; it’s frustrating when someone will heavily scrutinize a plausible scenario and demand more evidence, but will then go right around and accept an explanation that literally invokes magic without a second thought.

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    He justified this attidtude with the argument that these people don’t have enough evidence to make such claims with any certainty.

    And of course the Bible does have such conclusive evidence to back up its claim of divine origin as the word of God.?

    "Their entire narrative of history requires that miracles, magic, angles, and demons all influenced the world in very tangible ways in one particular geographic area in the distant past and between then and now such magical forces have stopped manifesting themselves in such obvious ways for no apparent reason".

    That`s it in a nutshell Saethydd which probably deserves a thread in its own right. { "If God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" } Where was god in the first 4,000 years of human history with regards to the rest of humanity ? God was actually instrumental in committing genocide among "many" nations apart from the Jews.

    He singled out a people for his name that he would bless and protect { when it suited him } and stuff the rest of humanity he wasn`t concerned with them ",old men women and child" could be put to death at his command and at his whim. Which he did time and time and time again throughout the Old Testament ,the Hebrew Scriptures .

    And this is a God of love , "Jehovah".


  • Freedom rocks
    Freedom rocks

    Yeah I got nowhere discussing 607bce with a jw last year. They just say historians are wrong and that man's methods of carbon dating are wrong. They said historians are disregarding a load of evidence that makes you arrive at the year 607.

    It was a frustrating conversation because they wouldn't even look into it they just said you can only trust the societies literature because they do thorough research.

  • cobweb
    cobweb

    Your magic gremlin reminds me a bit of Carl Sagen's dragon in the garage analogy about proof for God. I expect you know it but if not :

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    So much of the judeo-christian belief system, but especially the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are based on Ad Hoc arguments. The bottom line with them is - "You just have to have faith."

    I found the true definition of "faith" being - Accepting something to be factual without any evidence or proof.

    When Witnesses condemn one of their own as being "weak in the faith" what they are actually saying is that the individual requires too much evidence to act the way the organization expects them too. In short, if a Witness were truly faithful they would be acting like Armageddon is coming tomorrow.

  • Fred Franztone
    Fred Franztone

    The problem is that you're using facts to argue against faith, and it's like trying to use a mathematical formula to argue against dancing, it's not going to rub with those who believe. I've come to accept that those who leave will do so of their own accord, not because of what others say.

  • GMahler
    GMahler

    And here you expose the double standard of JWs. Whenever they come across research from any of these fields that they feel is evidence in support of their beliefs, they have no issue using it when debating critics. But if there is any data or consensus of experts that runs contrary to what they already believe, all of a sudden human knowledge is unreliable.

  • sir82
    sir82

    Yep.

    I've heard'em all:

    -- No one alive today was around to witness how things were thousands of years ago, so the scientists / historians can't be certain

    -- Science / history has been wrong before, so if there is a conflict with the Bible, it must be that science / history is wrong again

    -- The whole world, including scientists & historians, is "lying in the power of the wicked one"

    -- People just want to sin, so they make up elaborate fictions to cover over God's existence, so they can get away with it

    -- Are you saying these scientists / historians are smarter than Jehovah?

    -- I can't explain the conflict, but you just have have faith and leave it in Jehovah's hands. We'll all understand it fully in the new world

    I could probably come up with a dozen more if I cared to think about it long enough.

  • EverApostate
    EverApostate

    Two elders came to my home recently to revive me up.

    It started with Noah’s flood. They argued it was true

    I asked them "If Noah’s flood is true, why don’t any of the Science channels today authorize that such a world wide event happened"

    Their reply. "All Science channels are against the Bible"

    What else to argue with these “Self Deluded, heads buried in the sand” zombies

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000
    It was a frustrating conversation because they wouldn't even look into it they just said you can only trust the societies literature because they do thorough research.

    Even if the society actually did research, they would research based on the work done by the people this person refuses to believe in.

    The Org does not have historians, or archeologists, or experts in any field relevant to this. So what research do they do? Well they would rely on the experts of course, and the experts don't agree with the notion of 607bc.


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