Wealth, Poverty, and Morality (page 9)

SecondRateMind

So, I have spent the last couple of days firefighting.

I would now like to justify the figures in the OP. They are quite simple, really.

The $33,000 figure for an equitable level of net worth is derived from the Credit Suisse estimate of total world wealth in 2017 That is approx $241 trillion.

The $16,000 figure for an equitable level of annual income is derived from the wikipedia estimate of Gross World Production at approx $126 trillion for 2017.

Both these figures were divided by a world population, again estimated by wikipedia, at approx 7.2 billion in 2017.

Clearly, these figures for each individual's equitable allowance of wealth rise if total world wealth or annual production increases, and fall if the world's population increases. Similarly, they fall if total world wealth falls, and rise if population falls.

Best wishes, 2RM.

just fine

I think in some instances people make choices that keep them in poverty. For instance I had an employee who made about twice the minimum wage at the time. She would spend her money on alcohol and cigarettes instead of nutritious food for her two daughters. Her daughters nutritional needs came second to her wants of alcohol and tobacco. Giving someone more money doesn’t fix the irresponsibility of people, especially in the developed world.

Simon

Ah, the old lie that is Marxism - things aren't equal and it's all the fault of rich people, if only we took their money off them and gave it to the poor, the world would be fair and people would join hands and sing under rainbows (never rain though, strangely)

The only job of government should be to ensure fair markets and avoid abuse. But people are not equal, people do not have the same skills or endeavour and people don't deserve the same pay for massively unequal work.

There will always be poor people whatever they are given.

People are often poor because of the choices they make as much as them making those choices because they are poor. Eating well takes some time and effort, more than living off junk food, but it's cheaper. Likewise, exercise costs nothing and you get it when you take care of your home and neighbourhood - being poor is not an excuse for being fat. In fact, I think being a fat slob living off junk food is a sign that you have too much, not too little.

It's certainly not an argument that they should be given what someone else has possibly worked very hard for.

You can't judge individuals based on a group they fall into. Unless you're a leftist.

SecondRateMind

I think in some instances people make choices that keep them in poverty. For instance I had an employee who made about twice the minimum wage at the time. She would spend her money on alcohol and cigarettes instead of nutritious food for her two daughters. Her daughters nutritional needs came second to her wants of alcohol and tobacco. Giving someone more money doesn’t fix the irresponsibility of people, especially in the developed world.

Just fine, I think this is right. People need moral stature, spiritual development, a certain solid definition of character, to make accurate ethical decisions. And I am not at all sure that this maturity is best acquired in an indulgent, consumer culture.

Best wishes, 2RM.

SecondRateMind

Ah, the old lie that is Marxism...

Simon, I can't be bothered to address your post until you can be bothered to read the thread.

Best wishes, 2RM.

hoser

Simon I disagree. Not totally but in part. A good part of many peoples success financially depends on what vagina they are born from.

I was born in canada to a working class family in a rural area . Growing up I had access to healthy food, two parents, free healthcare and free schooling to grade 12. Because of observing my parents I was exposed to a strong work ethic and solid money management skills. My dad taught me a trade and volunteered his labour to me for free when I started my business.

It is not fair to compare myself to someone in a third world country ekeing out a living and barely surviving day to day. Nor is it fair to compare myself to the business sucess of donald trump who was born with a golden spoon.

dubstepped

I just watched a relative piss on anyone that would send a thank you follow up note after an interview, and watched others follow. How dare they, the poor, bow to the man like that? It's beneath them. They have such a chip on their shoulder that to even be nice to someone that might give you a job is seen as groveling. Comments like "they just want to see how desperate you are to get that paper" and "they just want to make money off you" are depressing and reflective of the poor I grew up with. Full of entitlement, ego, and utter ignorance. Let them be poor. They don't deserve better. Be humble and hungry and you can change your life. We shouldn't cast pearls before swine. They won't appreciate it.

I'm trying to expand my cleaning business right now. Placed an ad, got lots of initial responses, but few will return my emails. They just want me to give them something and I'm just supposed to hand over a check and the keys to a building that I was entrusted with. It's so frustrating. If you don't want to play the game then you get nothing. I'm not some greedy corporate scum, and for that matter neither are most, even at high levels. I'm supposed to take the risk, give your lazy ass a job, do the accounting, handle human resources bullshit for some ungrateful person that looks for ways to sue me, set your schedule, market the business, sell the jobs, but I don't deserve profit? Screw a bunch of the poor out there. Again, I'd you're truly destitute and without opportunity and need a meal, that's one thing. It's another to give entitled losers something so that they can still talk bad about you.

This thread is a train wreck. Just utopian ideology based in fairy tales and envy of those with more, moralizing and devaluing the fruits of the labor of those with more. I clean for people with lots of money, far more than me, and they get it by working a ton doing higher level stuff than I do with much larger risk. Good for them.

Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

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