Governing Buzzards - Part 2 - Do they ALL believe the JW religion?

by Amazing 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Part 2: Do all the Governing Body believe the JW religion? One would think that in a religion claiming to be God's modern day Commissioned Prophet that the men at the top, all current ten members would indeed BELIEVE!!! Does this mean that they would always agree everytime on every issue? No, because it only makes sense that being human there would be some different understandings among them, and at times serious disagreement. The Governing Body themselves have pointed to the meeting of the Apostles and older men in Jerusalem as being a heated debate ... and yes ... in the end they all came out with one accord. So, certainly, it never surprised me to learn that the Governing Body might have some strong debates and disagreement. BUT ... One very important thing: While the Apostles and various older and experienced Christians may have debated and strongly disagreed, they ALL accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. They may have debated the details, but the Christian faith was otherwise one and the same faith ... they may have been in different congregations (different organizations) with different cultures and races ... but they had a certain unity of faith that was genuinely solid. What if one or more of the 12 Apostles completely disagreed with the ENTIRE faith? How could this person have remained an Apostle? It is hard to fathom. To date, there is no challenge to the historical record about the unity of the Apostles ... there is no evidence that any of them disputed the entire Christian faith. What about the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses - Do they ALL believe? The first clue I received was from the book, "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz. He noted that some of the Governing Body did not accept 1914, and talked openly in their meetings about shifting the 1914 Last Generation date to 1957, when the Soviet Sputnik first flew a mission into space. Some Governing Body members even stated that you could just shift a date from one shoulder and put it on the other, thus implying that it took little to reinvent some doctrine that was otherwise fixed as critical. While a significant revelation to me that these men questioned some very core doctrines, they still held to the JW religion as the TRUTH! Then, in 2001, when I attended BRCI in Waterloo, Canada - SOMETHING NEW was revealed: One evening, several of us decided to sit in the hotel lounge and have a few drinks. Four of the eight of us were former Bethelites (I have never been a Bethelite). One of the former Bethelite who held a significant position in New York was talking about a close relationship he had with a Governing Body member. (I happen to have a couple of tapes of this GB member the former Bethelite mentioned. They were talks he gave on prayer.) If only these GB men could publish what they really know and believe. If only they could follow through with the material they used to relate in the 'special' talks they would give before the big 'apostate' crunch of the 1980s to present - maybe the JWs might have a nifty cool little religion. Anyway ... On one of many occasions, this former Bethelite was having a private discussion with this GB member. They discussed the Bible at times as part of their normal dialogue. The GB member then made the comment that utterly floored the Bethelite; and my hearing it in 2001, though I had been an ex-JW for 8 years at the time - IT FLOORED me. What did this GB member say that was so shocking? This is how it was related to me:

    "The Society has 'IT' all wrong, and everything we teach needs to be junked into the trash." The GB member went on to say, "The Society needs to start all over from the beginning, at Genisis 1:1 and completely reinvent the religion."

    I find it outrageous that a member of the Governing Body could make such sweeping statements, such total and wholesale abandonment of their religion in private, and seek to start over, when at the very same time, what they do publish is harming the flock, such as, but not limited to: Shunning, no blood, door-to-door religious selling, children not being properly educated through college, etc., and above all else, their foolish molestation policies. All along, these men, or at least in this case one man, publish what they are willing to call "The Truth" yet, do not believe what he is helping to publish ... and given what Ray Franz stated, it is reasonable to believe that more than one member of the Governing Body do not entirely believe and accept several serious doctrines of the JW religion. And maybe two or three or more might feel that the entire religion is wrong. This particular Governing Body member has at least gone to the point that he is willing to 'toss it all' into the waste bin. What a sad and cruel joke the leaders of the Watch Tower are perpetrating on the ignorant and unsuspecting JWs. I don't see how they can sleep at night ... I don't understand how they can continue on to lead 6 million people with such a voracious dialogue that they have the "Truth" and allow these people to suffer the consequences for their teachings, when in fact that at least some among them feel that they have it ALL WRONG! The Governing Body member whom I speak of is still one of the current ten members. The other GB member is one of the three that proposed shifting the last generation to 1957 from 1914 that Ray Franz mentions, and is also still on the Governing Body. [See, Crisis of Conscience, p. 261-263] ... So, we currently have at least two members of the Governing Body who were willing to make very serious changes to a core doctrine, one in the case of Albert Schroeder the only remaining member of the committee of three that proposed the serious date change ... and the other member I speak of who feels that the "Society has is all wrong" and wants to start over at Genises 1:1. How can these Governing Body members treat former Jehovah's Witnesses as evil apostates, when they themselves do not necessarily accept their own religion? How can they expect lock-step unity when they themselves are divided? Truly, they are nothing but Buzzards, preying on innocent people for their own glory. Let's hope some of them will do as did Ray Franz, and have a "crisis of conscience." PS: Who are the Bethelite and the Governing Body member I speak of? I will verify with the former Bethelite that I have his permission to post that information ... Stay Tuned for: Part 3 - Does the WTS lie about being Exonerated? Part 4 - Who really introduced the Sword of War? Part 5 - Do Governing Body members love GLORY?

    And, more parts are on the way ...

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Good stuff Jim

    I think we need to get John Stossel from 20/20 inside bethel for a revealing expose.

  • Azalo
    Azalo

    maybe that is why the coup happened a few years ago, the bethel "heavies" as JT calls them realized that just one or two governing body members could bring the whole religion down if they had a COC so they took their power away and left them with just their empty titles.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    Interesting post, keep 'em coming!

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Azalo,

    " ... so they took their power away and left them with just their empty titles."

    You know, I think you have an excellent point. I can envision that the top Bethel management convinced the Governing Body that they needed to be insulated from the potential child abuse lawsuits on the horizon, and by being officially removed from positions of corporate authority, this would help protect them legally ... but, I can also envision the reasons you gave that the top Bethel menagement at the same time feared that these old coots could possibly bring down the House of Cards should they have a personal "crisis of conscience."

    Thanks. - Jim W.

  • cyberguy
    cyberguy

    I suspect that Dan Sydlik, does not believe in the 1914 teaching, or at least, has grave reservations about it. Also, I suspect, from some of his comments, he doesn?t believe in the 2-classes of Christians, "anointed" and "other sheep." Although he has a good, general knowledge of the Bible, he often resorts to JW-doctrine so as to not "rock-the-boat" too much! He doesn?t want to loose his job. I think a statement I saw some time ago on this board sums it up: "one day, you come to realize that ?Moe, Larry, and Curly,? are running the organization."

  • ESTEE
    ESTEE
    This particular Governing Body member has at least gone to the point that he is willing to 'toss it all' into the waste bin. What a sad and cruel joke the leaders of the Watch Tower are perpetrating on the ignorant and unsuspecting JWs. I don't see how they can sleep at night ... I don't understand how they can continue on to lead 6 million people with such a voracious dialogue that they have the "Truth" and allow these people to suffer the consequences for their teachings, when in fact that at least some among them feel that they have it ALL WRONG!

    This is truly Amazing information ... Amazing!!! I wish there was some way to present the information to the general lay-dubs. I wonder how many of them would then open their eyes and know that the religion they have taken stock in all this time is nothing but a sham. The lay-dubs are so shielded from the ApostatesTM that when the elders say, "Lies! All lies!" it is what they want to hear and they want to believe and so that is what is believed ... The blind continue to lead the blind ... gr-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r!!!

    So-o-o-o-o-o-o sa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ad ... I wish my kids would leave ...

    ESTEE

  • Noumenon
    Noumenon

    We know from Franz's books that some of the GB have expressed certains doubts on some things, like 1914, but I personally take with a big pinch of salt this 'quote': "The Society has 'IT' all wrong, and everything we teach needs to be junked into the trash." The GB member went on to say, "The Society needs to start all over from the beginning, at Genisis 1:1 and completely reinvent the religion." This is pure hearsay. While I have no reason to doubt your friend, how do we know he has not totally exaggerated what the GB member supposedly said to him. I suspect he's taken it quite out of context. I'm not defending the GB or the organisation, I just don't give much credence to hearsay from friends of friends of friends with 'inside knowledge' etc.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Noumenon,

    This is not a 'friend of a friend of a friend' as you seem to think ... rather, I heard it straight from the Bethelite who was a close and long time friend with the GB member - teh very one who was there having the personal conversation with the GB member ... and it was not taken out of context, but was a result of many such Bible discussions and Wacthtower teachings ... other Bethelites at the table who knew the same GB member vouched with similar knowledge of the GB member ... I called another Bethelite today who was a friend with same GB member. The person said the same thing to me, agreeing with my post today - and even guessing who the GB member was before our conversation was far along.

    So, yes, technically it is hearsay ... in fact everything on this board is hearsay ... so why even bother posting here or reading anything said ... it is ALL hearsay ... you cannot trust a word said here ...

    According to Ray Franz in his books, and in personal conversations I have had with him, this type of doubt and feeling runs through various members of the GB and other high ranking Bethelites ... and this is what troubled Ray so much as to why he would be singled out for forced resignation when he was no more guilty than other GB members ...

    But, alas, it is all hearsay, even Ray Franz's books contain a lot of hearsay ... and that is why I have no idea if you are really living in Australia, or even an ex-JW ... you might be a loyalist JW spy here to gleen information for the Organization. You yourself could be nothing but pure hearsay ... Who really knows? Yep, you have a point ...

  • metatron
    metatron

    I'm strongly inclined to believe statements like this because I've known some older brothers who were heavies in Bethel

    and in unguarded moments, they'd say stuff like this - expressing doubts about Watchtower doctrines. I think COC has

    a quote from old brother Jackson speaking dismissively about the Society's chronology and dates.

    The key to understanding the Watchtower is often this:

    Imagine a person trying to argue with himself - or trying to overcome his own doubts, This is the motivation

    for a LOT of articles - as long timers re-assure themselves that this isn't all bull$hit.

    metatron

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