To think... if Rutherford had got a few hundred more votes his political career might have taken off. And JWs as we know them probably wouldn't exist.
Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!
by ILoveTTATT2 78 Replies latest jw friends
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Finkelstein
It would to be expected given the era that businessmen with money and public stature would meet and associate in organizations like the Freemasons and alike.
Russell had made personal connections with the Freemasons and Rutherford most likely joined in with him there as well.
Turn of the century rebels .
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Jeffro
ILoveTTATT2:
So here is Jetthro's logic:
Not aware of any poster here named Jetthro, Jethro, or similar.
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Jeffro
ILoveTTATT2:
He always appears in articles using the same initials, but it's not questioned whether it's him because there are other factors such as a) mentioned in relation to lawyers or b) mentioned in relation to the democratic party.
Red herring. The articles referring to membership of Knights of Pythias don't refer to matters "in relation to lawyers", and speaking on matters of finance and politics is not specific to lawyers, and is certainly in the purview of someone who goes on to be president of various companies, including the Clio Lumber Company and the Bluff City Lumber Company. Hence, articles referring to lawyers may well refer to Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and have no bearing on the identity of the Knights of Pythias member.
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Jeffro
ILoveTTATT2:
I have not contested your Wikipedia change, since for now I only have indirect proof.
It would be foolhardy indeed to 'contest' the Wikipedia change armed only with what you imagine constitutes 'proof'.
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Jeffro
sparky1:
I found court records in the case of Godell v. Bluff City Lumber dated January 21, 1893 wherein J.F.(John) Rutherford was noted as being the vice-president and secy/treasurer of the Bluff City Lumber Company. Until proven otherwise, I stand with ILoveTTATT2.
That would be foolish indeed. For even if John were not living in Boonville, it would not mean he were not the indiviudal involved (and though cars were not common, there were certainly trains on which visiting speakers could get about). Added to that, even if John were not the individual concerned, that still would not constitute evidence that the only candidate would be Joseph. Hence, your logical fallacy is false dichotomy.
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Jeffro
The funniest thing about all this is just how badly some people want it to be that Joseph Rutherford had some association, as if it would imply something nefarious.
It is not at all established that Joseph Rutherford was the 'J. F. Rutherford' in some newspaper articles mentioning fraternal groups. And it's also possible that an otherwise prominent individual in a community could be invited as a guest speaker. (Though one of the articles touted as 'proof' has the J. F. Rutherford speaking "on behalf of the local Woodmen" rather than identifying him as a member of the Knights of Pythias. The same article says the gathering was represented by members from three states, so it is not unrealistic that a person could visit from Arkansas.)
But if Rutherford were a member of some fraternal group in the late 1800s, so what? It would not necessitate that he had any allegiance to the group later on. So why the rabid excitement about the possibility?
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Onager
Jeffro, you would do well to remember 1Cor 13:1 - "If I post three times in a row in a thread, but have not love, I have become a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal."
You've posted FIVE times. You're too invested in proving your point in an argument that you say doesn't matter.
For what it's worth I agree with your position, while there is evidence, there is no proof. I, however, am happy to wait for the further investigations of ILoveTTATT2 to see what other interesting information they can dig up.
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Jeffro
Onager:
Jeffro, you would do well to remember 1Cor 13:1 - "If I post three times in a row in a thread, but have not love, I have become a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal."
Ha ha. Um... I think you may have taken some poetic license there.
You've posted FIVE times. You're too invested in proving your point in an argument that you say doesn't matter.
Oh no! Not... FIVE times! I hope the guardians of fake Bible verses will forgive me for this egregious arbitrary number of sequential posts. I responded to a number of separate posts that were made in my absence. I didn't realise there was a limit. Whether Joseph Rutherford was a member of some particular group in the 19th century doesn't matter. But standards of evidence still matter, especially if people are going to update Wikipedia articles based on flimsy assumptions.
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sparky1
"There is a J. (John) F. Rutherford who was from Missouri and was later in Arkansas who was president of the Bluff City Lumber Company." - Jeffro
Since you have made this claim, please provide documentation that John F. Rutherford was from Missouri. That would help to confirm your assertion and get the discussion moving in the right direction.