Transfer of Bank Balances and Kingdom Halls.

by kramer 17 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Vidiot

  Is far as I'm concerned, I'd be perfectly cool with the WTS selling off all the KHs out from under the congregations.

  Anything that gives fakers, faders, and fence-sitters further incentive to GTFO is fine by me.
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  compare KH with this meal-hall:

  the franchisee pays a monthly fee to put the "M" on the roof and to the serve food produced by the
  governing franchisor. Franchisors are able to sell franchises and expand rapidly across countries and continents using the capital and resources of their franchisees while reducing their own risk. similar. If the fee would be called montly donation, you would not find a difference.

  
  
• 

  Mephis

  but why would the individual charities ever believe they own their own churches anyway? Publishers are just volunteers for a charity , they can no more claim ownership of a hall as can somebody that donates to a donkey sanctuary claim ownership of part of the stables. The society aren't 'stealing' anything as the publishers have never owned the hall. And even if they did any congregation would hand over ownership to the society if asked , if it's deemed to be needed

  Dub publishers are more akin to donkeys who pay their own board, paid for the stables to be erected in the first place and used to be able to decide when to change the straw.

  Does the CO have a better idea of the needs of a local congregation than those there? Does London Bethel? If all the money being contributed for the refurb goes to London and then they refuse to sanction the refurb, does that sound right? How about all the money saved up for a new hall and the go ahead now doesn't come through? Or the donations which paid for a local kingdom hall which gets sold and then those who donated now have to travel the 20 or 30 miles for meetings which they'd paid for a hall to avoid?

  Sure, the WBTS operates a hierarchical religion whilst pretending to be otherwise. It's that tension which is exposed when they suck all the money out of local bank accounts and then say they'll decide what happens with it. The local elders may nod it through, but they're trustees for their congregation and can be held account as a group for their actions as that.
• 

  umbertoecho

  In Australia, congregants are being asked pre pay "before" the assemblies. They have been reminded that the initial forgiveness of loans and subsequent forms handed out to families in order to budget their donations, was only for their immediate halls. Not for assemblies.

  The average witness looks a bit .....shocked or worried (not all but the ones I have seen) My sister shook her head with sorrow and said..."their's just not enough money..(she is seventy) Her devotion has always been there and most of the time she is obnoxious toward the rest of "worldly" people behind her plastic smile. So, no. Things are not feeling that great here. Plus the ARC is making it's uncomfortable presence felt in such a diplomatic but unyielding manner. It's a joy to behold for those involved.
• 

  TheWonderofYou

  Some charities are consciously embracing the social enterprise model. Social enterprises are organizations that apply commercial strategies to maximize improvements in human and environmental well-being . This may include maximizing social impact rather than profits for external shareholders. Social enterprises can be organised as for-profit and non-profit organisations and apply economical standards and performance standards. Many are not and others are still in the dark about what social enterprise is. Trading to generate income is not for every charity and even though it can make an organisation more sustainable and help it grow, becoming a social enterprise is a gradual process with lots to consider. ... [other terms are social enterpreneurship, social economy].

  What’s the same?

  - Charities and social enterprises both exist to fulfil a social mission.

  - Charities and social enterprises both reinvest the majority of their profits (charities often describe these as surpluses) in doing social good.

  What’s different?

  -Charities traditionally aim to fund their social mission through grants and donations.

  - Social enterprises aim to fund their social mission through trading activities - selling products and services to customers.

  1 .The social mission of the charity requires obviously acting economically. Consequently only the charity management = custodian trustee should decide alone over all freehold and leasehold of the charity to act according to the social benefit of JW-church.

  All donations are not destinated for private local social derived activity but for the charity organised work alone therefore : forget your money, leave it your trustee!

  2. Trust in the trustee's economical expertise, who solicitousy handles all properties and capitals of places for worship of the charity. This economic activity includes investing of your donated capital in funds with the most attainable profit on capital market. The trustee can make grants or loans and give guarantees, deposit or invest funds to make investment diversification with this in view: profit and suitabiltiy to your benefit. They do it since hundred years. Please dont mistrust them. Your money is in good faitfhul slave capitalist hand now!

  _______

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  AdVenture Capitalist is a "classic"-style Idle Game, starting with some clicking and quickly advancing to mostly just checking in every once in a while to buy more things. It has a few interesting twists that make it unique:
  Angel Investors that permanently boost your profits, but can only be claimed by "resetting" your game, losing everything (except your Investors!) and rebuilding much faster than before; a focus on really, stupendously huge numbers (trillions of dollars? Hah! The goal of the game is to get the most amount of money possible.

  Welcome, brave young investor, to AdVenture Capitalist! The world’s top capitalism simulator!
  

  ______
  

  
  
• 

  kramer

  @thewonderofyou - yes, and that's a model I would advocate to supplement the charity resources that are needed, with surplus profits being reinvested for the furtherance of the social objectives (in the UK 50% of distributable surpluses can be paid out in profits for private gain, so maybe the model doesn't fit exactly) . Trading profit on property in prime locations in NYC, or tertiary areas of London can fund charitable objectives in other parts of the world, then that great.
• 

  bohm

  Juan: Very nice summary. I remember when you broke the Menlo Park kingdom hall back then but didn't take too much note, it just seemed like local power play... fast forward now and it is clear decisions to sell KHs are being taken even in my country centrally, there is even a website dedicated to selling KHs and other properties.

  Well spotted back then, I guess it shows how you can sometimes predict more about what the WT will do by observing details.

  Still, I think the big questions remain what they need 2-3 billion dollars for.
• 

  Lostandfound

  The bone of contention does not affect all congregations and as an irritant does not bother the WT, that is that, as already mentioned, dedicated funds, or restricted funds in UK Charity jargon, built up over many years by congregations for a new build/restoration are absorbed by WT and the new build/restoration never takes place. I witnessed this locally and a considerable swell of discontent was created, many had worked for decades to build (and then maintain) this Hall in the 50s, and had saved considerable funds for a complete refurb, which will not happen now. Those funds were restricted and WT had congregations adopt a document giving WT carte blanch over any and any property of cong. Not an issue with newer ones but older ones with a history of personal labour etc for KH/Assembly Hall very unhappy but not savvy enough to examine situation, and hey! For WT the older ones will die off, or more correctly, "...those who built Kingdom Interest will never see any benefit but will die, so there" (my words) Someone told me, " emphasis must be on foreign field, Africa, so GB got things right" with blindness such as this GB could build a summer retreat at Warwick and a Winter Palace in Florida, shades of Rutherford!

  Back in 50s 60s congregations were largely associated with society, now every action, thought and deed governed by WT with little of any local initiative or direction. GB has all by the @@@@@