Should Obama and coalition troops push ISSI'S out of Iraq??

by Witness 007 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • Simon
    Simon

    No ground troops. That is what ISIS wants. The US would just bleed troops week by week, year by year until they loose the will and attention and demand another withdrawal. Unless you are prepared to be there for 30+ years then forget it as a strategy. It is a war you cannot win. Even Vietnam had more definite targets to shoot at and look how that ended.

    I was thinking about this whole thing today and if I could pinpoint when everything went south it would be Abu Graib. That was when the US lost Iraq and the high ground and when ISIS was born. Bush / Blair and the invade now / plan later strategy to nowhere set the future. We should hang those bastards from the nearest lamp-posts.

    Everything after that has just been domino's falling toward where we are today. Guerrilla warfare has come full circle and is not an attacking doctrine, not just a defensive, rear-guard action.

    Fundamentally, you can't bomb your way to victory against an opponent that hides among civilians. If you want to bomb civilians then roll the dice and nuke Mecca during Ramadan(a-ding-dong) but otherwise stop pretending that anything but a ground force can change things. This needs people kicking doors in, people pointing out the bad guys and triggers pulled.

    What we need to do it turn the economic screws on Turkey. They either need to be a true ally or to pay the price. They can't keep playing both sides and treating us like schmucks.

  • kaik
    kaik

    No ground troops. That is what ISIS wants.

    Exactly. This strategy did not work for Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan, and did not work for Soviets in Afghanistan. ISIS can entice men from Muslim countries all the time because it is war of ideology, not for specific national goal.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Incidentally, I've just been re-watching the World at War (in color) about WWII.

    When you look at what the allies defeated it really puts the current situation into perspective.

    As much as they like to think they are 'a significant force' it's really all just PR and social media. ISIS are nothing. They are no real threat. The only reason they make the news at all is because of how peaceful our normal existence has become. 100 years ago we'd count bodies by the millions, now it's the worst attack ever if it reaches a dozen. Sorry Daesh but is that all you got? Odd attacks, now and then? You can't even mount a continued offensive. We beat Nazism and imperial Japan at the same time and then Communism as an encore. You don't even register compared to them.

    They are a mild inconvenience at the very worse that could be dispatched with one weapon. The only problem is that we want to balance killing them with not harming innocents so we hold back. But they can never win or threaten our civilization as long as we don't panic and elect some moron (you know I mean Trump, right?). They don't have the resources or the appeal that we do - 99.9% of the planet thinks they are utter dicks and no one cares when they die.

    The threats in WWII were much bigger, far more severe and challenging to overcome and yet we did.

  • Simon
    Simon
    ISIS can entice men from Muslim countries all the time because it is war of ideology

    We just need to force them to try and "rule" the territory they have taken. Then watch as they inevitably fail and the population gets fed up of their abuse and ineptitude.

    The best thing they have going for them is our own dumb media* and the certain politicians hyping up their threat. But they are no threat.

    *Years ago propaganda was an important part of the war against the Nazis. Nowadays we'd play it for them on an endless loop. From now on I turn the news off whenever they start their bullshit. No viewers = no ads = change of editorial policy.

    We have the power to enact change.

  • talesin
    talesin

    kaik, you stole my comment! : )

    We in North America, have had farcical campaigns on ideologies for decades.

    1950s and ongoing. The War Against Communism (mostly in USA) - FAIL.

    1980s and ongoing, The War On Drugs - FAIL.

    1990s and ongoing, The War On Child Poverty - FAIL.

    Now, it's the War On Terrorism - doomed to FAIL.

    There are social reasons why we have these problems - we do not live in a perfect world. Injustice prevails, and that will always breed social unrest. The 'global economy', and its billions of abused work slaves, which is now feeding the machine that makes the rich get even richer, is going to crash, and SOON.

    The Western world needs to WAKE UP and stop the cultural imperialism, bleeding of natural resources, and the xenophobia. Ack, it's all too crazy. smdh

    t :sunglasses:

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    Simon: No ground troops. That is what ISIS wants.

    kaik: Exactly. This strategy did not work for Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan, and did not work for Soviets in Afghanistan. ISIS can entice men from Muslim countries all the time because it is war of ideology, not for specific national goal.

    Sending in ground troops is not a strategy but a means to any number of different strategies. It's having the right strategy - the multi-nation solution - that will be the determining factor. Going in with Iraqi troops will be a different situation compared to what that idiot, George Bush Junior, did with no knowledge of the situation.

    You'll basically be guiding and supporting the Iraqi ground troops in their endeavor to liberate their own country.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Yes, a few special forces supporting and targeting airstrikes for the Kurdish forces or whoever else has a genuine personal stake in the region.

    No mass forces that only turn out to be "us". That is just some retard Christian moron's wet-dream and we know how that ended the last time those morons got together and came up with a plan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh01FKH8oIA

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    Simon:

    Yes, a few special forces supporting and targeting airstrikes for the Kurdish forces or whoever else has a genuine personal stake in the region.

    How many are "a few"? To me it would be tens of thousands. You would need thousands to secure their oil fields. That can be done quickly taking most of ISIS's funding away.

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007
    The kurds too back their own areas from issis. Many westerners who moved there soon found....no clean water to drink, no gas for cooking at resturants it's a huge MESS!! Life is hard there. They would return if they could. And the USA HAS invaded Iraq twice and Afganastan. The damage is done they need to mop up ISSIS who would not last a month against the U.S. They could not even capture Bagdad against the hopless Iraqi forces.
  • kaik
    kaik

    VI, day or two I read, that in order for Russia to conquer ISIS, it will need to put 350,000 ground troops in Syria. This is a huge number, which Russia cannot afford. Asad controls only 1/5 of the country and he will never recover his state. ISIS control 12 million people and if the population would not stand behind this regime, it will not be that successful. It is illusion to think that Sunni Iraq and Syria will "liberate" their territory from ISIS with the help of foreigner. It will not work. Population there is dreaming of ancient Caliphate that will return and restore glory of long lost past. Even if Russian/West coalition conquers Raqqa, the capital of ISIS, the ideology will not disappear. ISIS is not the only war of the Islamist ideology, there is Yemen, Mali, Nigeria, Libya, and West/Russia does not have money, will, resources, and leadership to control them. The best the world can do is containment.

    What you propose is grand coalition, which would backfire in Russia (the largest Muslim population in Europe, Moscow itself has 2 million Muslims), and Western Europe which face a possibility of internal war with Islamic refugees. Americans thinks that they have superiority and putting a huge hope for Trump to be elected and sent tens of thousands Americans to fight in ME and defeat ISIS, but again, there is nothing to really conquer. How you will deal with Islamic ideology that has a huge support among 1.2 billion Muslims from Africa to ME to Asia? Capture of ISIS territory will not address it.

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