Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam 84 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  days of future passed

  At the time the organization was telling all of us, that even going to a swimming pool at the YMCA was fraternizing with false religion, they were using the UN's "library". And who is the UN in WT's dictionary? The "beast that ascends out of the abyss" the one that wages war against the holy ones.

  So it's ok for them to lie down with false religion, but they warn the regulars not to use a pool.

  As regards to what I said early about Daniel and Revelation, here is the scripture that cause a minor meltdown for me.

  Rev 11:7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and will conquer them and kill them.

  Rev 11:3 shows that it is the "two witnesses" that are the "them"

  In WT teachings, the two witnesses are them. They were "chosen" in 1916 and were "killed" and then resurrected in 1916. They relate to Daniel 7:21,22, 25,26.

  Notice that it is the "beast that ascends out of the abyss" that kills them. Yet when did this "beast" ascend out of the abyss? Not in 1916. The WT has it that the UN - known as the League of Nations first - "ascended" out of the abyss in 1945. So it is impossible for them to be the "two witnesses" by their own tagging.

  For fun, you could - if you have the old CD of their literature - look up Rev 11:7 and see how many times they omit the part about the "wild beast" or "the abyss" in their articles that reference the "two witnesses" I know just before I left about 6 or 7 years ago, there was an article that did that very thing which was misleading of course.

  For fun, see that a scriptural reference to the "abyss" found in Rev 11:7 isn't there. Usually they link important reference scriptures but not in this case. In the burgundy bible, the one right before this gray one, they did have a reference. Except it went to the scripture about the "angel that had a key to the abyss" which is an entirely different subject. This gray bible does have the scripture reference in the back that links to the correct beast of the abyss Rev 17:8, while the burgundy bible didn't.

  Why? As time passes and their emphasis on the "two witnesses" gets further dimmed, unless you have grown up with this, you will not even question it or even get a clue that something is amiss.

  None of what I've posted will make an impression on you. Simply because it takes time and cross referencing and most importantly, a desire to investigate. If you really think they are just a bunch of misinformed but good hearted guys, these things will just be shrugged off. I had to research these things myself to know for certain. What my sister told me about the sexual abuse towards children and how the WT hides it, made sense to me because I knew my sister wasn't a liar, but also because of the 20/20 television show that came out years ago collaborated it. But still, I had to know for myself. Once I found out through my own research their purposeful misdirection and lying, that was it for me.

  Hope you find your tipping point in this.
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  caves

  AA said- I could only conceive of their errors being either "honest mistakes" or "done with evil intent". I couldn't see evil intent, so I figured they were honest mistakes. Here's what I learned: There's a "middle ground" between these two extremes. I'll paraphrase him/her because I have no better way of putting it: "most of the damage done by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is due to the unintended consequences of their actions, rather than the intention to do damage to people. The real problem is their callous, pharisaical attitude caused by indoctrination". That's a real eye opener. Thought I'd share it here

  Fink said-I think what AlainA is trying to assert on this thread is that the GB men or past presidents of the WTS were just misinformed good willed and well intended people.

  Then AA-said-"I think what AlainA is trying to assert on this thread is that the GB men or past presidents of the WTS were just misinformed good willed and well intended people."
  No, I'm not trying to assert that. I'm wondering about it.

  Does anyone else see a major discrepancy with this post? I have yet to figure out why the back and forth with AA on this when it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't, type of response.

  It may not 'intended' that way but it sure reaks of troll to me.
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  Finkelstein

  There is plenty of evidence the past presidents or GB leaders of the WTS/JWS had bad intent, not so much with C T Russell, he just adopted some crazy evangelical theologies from other people and thought they would be worthy to help sell literature that he was going to publish.

  He wasn't on a high rolling people controlling power trip like the men who followed after in control over the WTS publishing house. ( J Rutherford )
  

  The WTS eventually expanded and grew so did the individual power and control over people's lives by the top leaders who slowly developed a greater sense of involving self empowerment, telling people not to get married and have children, telling them to forego any vaccination, organ transplant or blood transfusion and many people died because of that.

  That righteous perceived power came from god's holy spirit that was being poured out to those men because they claimed that god had selectively chosen them.

  The bad intent of those men can now be identified in their own endeavor of self empowerment via god's power.
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  snare&racket

  Do you have any proof that Jim Jones had bad intent?.......... indeed.
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  Giordano

  Yes the Society shows bad intent by encouraging their members to pass up a life saving blood transfusion.

  They killed off two of our closest family members for want of a life saving blood transfusion. Needless deaths abound in the JW world. Abuse of children, lack of education. The JW world is dark and cruel.

  The Society has lied and fought to keep those lies protected.

  AA are you getting a whiff of the Catholic Church, or the Boy Scouts failed excuses for their child sexual abuse problems. The JW's are in good company.

  The ARC found 1006 cases of JW child sexual abuse in Australia attributed directly to the JW's. How many cases were turned over to the police..........not a single case. These children were abused over and over and over again....think about it.

  I feel AA that your on a mission to convince us that the Society and it's JW's are wonderful people.They are not......... they break the law, hide information, and hurt the little children.

  Jesus said "don't hinder the children from coming to me." Does the WT follow that...hell NO!

  Do you think they are doing a good job of any of the basics? Food, Shelter, Respect for not allowing the sexual abuse of the children. No...... the JW's have no faith because it's all made up. The Society decides what you will be compelled to believe each and every year.

  I sense you are bull shitting us with discussions that don't matter at all.

  Slice it and dice it your interests run deep into the WT beliefs............. why try to bullshit us. The Society runs a criminal organization and they are very protective of Jehovah's good name cause that's how the money comes in.

  AA As far as your concerned your sucking on the tit of needless bible ramblings.....trying to provoke a meeting of minds with those who have long abandoned the sickness that a JW has eagerly accepted.
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  Finkelstein

  Here are some of the unquestionable consequences of what happens to people who did join the JW religion .....

  Personal financial ruin, oppressed intellectual growth, preventable death, individual disrepair, anxiety, depression, suicide, broken family relationships, missed secular work opportunities, missed personal relationships with the opposite sex/marriages.
  

  When select men proclaim they have being directed by god's holy spirit therefor everything they say or instruct comes through him in all power and righteousness ........ shit inevitably happens to people .

  Those select men really are into a state of self glorification and empowerment, appealing to themselves, their personal identity and stature.
  
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  Vidiot

  They're not mustache-twirling supervillains...

  ...but they're definitely not squeaky-clean, either.
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  Magnum

  You mentioned the reddit post and said this: "most of the damage done by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is due to the unintended consequences of their actions, rather than the intention to do damage to people."

  I agree with that, however, one's intent can still be classified as evil even if the damaging consequences of his actions to others were unintended.

  Two scenarios:

  1) Joe is a hateful person who loves to cause pain and suffering to others and to harm them. He breaks into your house and tortures and kills you. He intended to harm you.

  2) John doesn't have any desire to harm you, but he is a thief and he wants what you have. He breaks into your house to steal your stuff and when he sees you in the house, he causes you harm. His intention was not to cause you harm; it was an unintended consequence of an evil desire/action. Or consider a slave owner who works his slaves brutally and doesn't reward them. His intentions are not to cause them harm; they are to get the cotton to the market so he can make money. However, he is still evil.

  So, one's intentions can still be classified as being evil even though they weren't to directly cause harm to others.

  The org has used people and destroyed lives. The prime of my life was taken from me. I was robbed of millions just in wages I could have made. And yes, the org is deceptive, and some of the leaders have to know it.

  As Cofty mentioned, they have to know the blood doctrine is wrong. They want so badly for the issue to go away. They're coming as close as they can to accepting blood transfusions. That "fractions" stuff is totally BS, and they have to know it. If I tell you not to touch my car, but you touch a tire or the windshield or a mirror, could you claim you're not touching my car (because you're only touching a part (or fraction) of it?) If I tell you not to eat my pizza, so you separate it into "fractions" like crust and cheese and pepperoni and eat them separately, are you not guitly?

  Either it's permissible to take a blood transfusion or it's not. Once can't separate blood into fractions and then accept the fractions and claim he's not taking a transfusion.

  The org knows it's wrong, but can't backtrack on the blood doctrine because of all the lost lives and the PR nightmare that would result. No, the intentions aren't to directly cause harm, but they are still evil.

  Also, as Cofty mentioned, they have to know they're wrong about 607. You have to research Carl Olof Jonsson's letters to the org, etc.

  Another deceptive thing is the disaster relief moneymaking scam. I'm going to start a thread about that hopefully soon.
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  Fadeaway1962

  Magnum

  Enjoy your post

  Theocatic ministry school if you're old enough to remember it , you get a G for your illustration of the pizza .
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  Finkelstein

  One could focus or make highlight into their bad intent concerning the end times, last days doctrine involving the dating year of 1914.

  The WTS at three distinctly different times proclaimed mankind's existence of being 6000 years, once in the early 1900's, again in the early 1940's and finally in the year 1975, even pointing out an actual month of October.

  Why was this done ?

  It was simply done so to support the doctrine of " This Generation " since 1914.

  Is it feasibly possible to do this by chronological calculation of using the bible or outside secular knowledge ?

  No it is not so these men were lying and dishonestly corrupt is doing so.

  The ending analysis of these men's actions was that they were deviously corrupt religious charlatans (Apostates,sinners)
  

  Bad intent indeed.