@venus
You have good points
Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?
by TerryWalstrom 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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eyeuse2badub
Another great analysis Terry!
Since stepping away from the wtbts and looking logically at the Bible and other religious Holy Books, I have come the the conclusion that they are ALL bizarre, fantasy filled works of superstitious human imagination and possibly even drug induced hallucination.
Hero and villian
war and peace
feast and famine
struggle and reward
They all follow the same pattern and then the "knight in shining armor" rides in on the "white horse" to save the kingdom for his beloved father.
The Bible= Hebrew Mythology written by Hebrews for Hebrews!
just saying!
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TerryWalstrom
Basic Mythology is comic book in nature.
The flaws of humans are blown up into larger-than-life stories.
A man is the model for a SUPERman. Halfway between a man and a god is a DEMIgod.
Hercules, for all practical purposes, is Samson.
Hercules is the son of Jupiter. Hercules was a demigod.
Jesus was the son of God and considered by many a demigod.
Shorthand thinking. -
TheWonderofYou
I read Rev.16 verses 14,16 again and yet more now I can hardly understand why this short high symbolic text should be read as a "final solution" for the whole world of unbelievers and a "of most importance" text in the bible. Also Armageddon seems to be not " a war in heaven" but "more earth-orientied " because of the " kings of the nations " mentioned, which could be a phrase chosen by John to mean simple the Roman empire which then was the whole world, but he avoided it to call Rome.
This WAR of wrath - part of the 7 bowls of wrath -- was then I think simple a part of the 6th bowls of Gods wrath - the wrath against Babylon/Rome and not about the end of the world, killing of all unbelievers, as the river Euphrat are mentioned in the same verse as armageddon.
Read the 7th bowl and it again speaks about BAbylon. So everything seems to point to an earthly wrath against the Roman empire in which all kings of all nations take symbolically part and to which they congregate themselves at a symbolic place of Armageddon, this is language of hope, that was used in the Johanite community liturgy. The terminology of war was present but in highly symbolic use.
So I think John or the first christians did not mean Armagedon a war against all nonbelievers at the end of time but Armageddon to be a war of babylon the great which riding and influencing all kings against holy church and God's wrath against babylon afterwards.
The other more heavenly "war in heaven" - according to your definition - in which a dragon and michael appears is another subject yet more interesting for my later post.
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Finkelstein
There is a lot of ancient mythology that is bizarre, but what is more bizarre is that people living today accept it as non fiction.
Mythology is composed from human ignorance with human imagination.
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mikeflood
Just imagine, "war in Heaven", as is depicted, fought with swords, bows, arrows, and of course, horses. Not that the spiritual sphere is advanced like 13 billion years or so. And no casualties, just prisoners.
I mean, we humans should copy that.
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TheWonderofYou
Next error. In the war at Armageddon on The day of The Lord no rider on a white horse with a bow and arrow is mentioned at all.
It is Watchtowers fantastic conglomering of texts that they at Armageddon in the final slaughter see a horse here.
For this they now wrench and misusthe white horse of Rev.4 in a story about 4 apocalyptical horsemen yet not riding in Armageddon and not together with thousand other white horses of angels but onlg as 3 horsemen - black, red and pale - and only preceding and announcing a certain Apocalypse for the Roman empire and not the world. The white horse here not being used for wrath or annihilate enemies of God physically but as symbol for announcing the gospel which is preceding the end according to Ireneaus. Even if one interpretes the horsemen as consequences of human (roman) war there is nothing said here about God killing billions because he commanded it as final all solution. This story of horsemen is part of the 7 seals-story, which is only announcing something bad for the empires future but is not itself the finally executed judgment by a God.
Then theres is a horsemen in chapter 19 , Christ.
"And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses." White and clean... why because whitewashed...humans not angels. White the colour of the clean good news.
So then this "white army in heaven" is simply consisting of "coward" christians who are saved and whitewashed in the blood of the lamb not real warriors, "coureageous victors" but normal peaceful people with peaceful mind here presented as victorious winners of a battle. Projection as you call it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse
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TheWonderofYou
Corr:
So then this "white army in heaven" is simply consisting of ordinary christians who are saved and whitewashed in the blood of the lamb, more cowards than real warriors, the normal peaceful people with peaceful mind preaching the white gospel and presented here as victorious coureagous winners of a battle. Projection in its best form. And again not a real divine judgment or killing of enemies but the gospel is fighting and victouriousy winning.
Like a war but not real war.... it's a spiritual war.. the preaching work is biblically called a spiritual "white war " all of you sitting on white horses riding on command of the white king against invisible evil fighting in the world putting on the full armor of God, Ephesians 6, combined with white linen then if so, but never destructing something but only healing the hearts.bizarre to call and project it as "war", but hey the gospel "wins" how comforting. You are on the winner side.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse
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smiddy3
I don`t get this focus in the book of Revelation that Satan and presumably his Demons being cast out of Heaven and cast down to the earth after a war in heaven that J.W`s believe happened around 1918-19 ?
According to the Bible in both the O.T and the N.T. Satan and his Demons have ALWAYS been active causing mayhem down here on the earth for Centuries ?
So what the bloody hell was different ?
The real question we should be asking is ....Why was Satan and his Demons allowed to reside in heaven at all after they rebelled in Eden ? and apparently so for thousands of years up until 1919 and coming and going apparently as they pleased even before the presence of Jehovah God. ?
Jehovah never shunned him and neither did his son Jesus according to scripture.
As attested to in the Scriptures
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venus
When Jesus asked his listeners to "become like God" (Mathew 5:48) which is exactly what Satan supposedly told first human couple, he was in effect saying no such account as Satan leading a rebellion in garden of Eden has never been taken place which means the account of Satan is a later adoption.
The Greek word used in 1John 5:19 can mean both either wastefulness or a personification of wickedness.