JW visit...after 12 years out

by Nobleheart1 23 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Nobleheart1

  Hello everyone

  I used to post here under the name Nobleheart but forgot the old password, so put up a new account (Nobleheart1).

  Was a JW (2002-2011), ended up writing a DA letter. I am a Christian (since leaving the org).

  I had not received any visit from any JW, until about 2 weeks ago. Our sign at the door (with my lastname) was too old, so my husband removed it.

  That's when I got 2 JW "sisters" at the door. I realized so many things have changed since 2011. Preaching is looking at the cellphone and listening to clips. Those clips are so silly, I have no idea what's so special or complex about them that they cannot summarize in their own words. Why would someone listen to a stranger explain why Bible reading is important to them when the JW at the door can provide their own experience? It is baffling to say the least.

  When I quit the org, we were using the Bible teach book for studies, but now they have an "interactive" book (Enjoy life forever), which you can download in your phone. First you download the JW app, which has the library of currently approved publications. The lessons are so elementary, they're grade 3 level. The dumbing down is unbelieveable. Also there is literally no mention of Jesus in any of the lesson titles. They told me I did not need to hold my Bible, the JW app had the best Bible version, updated and more accurate, and no need for hard copy as all the scriptures are a click away. I was shocked because as a JW, it was all about books/written publications. So far, it has all been about downloading stuff. They only left me with 1 tiny leaflet...in about 3-4 visits.

  We went through lesson 1 together (so I'm a Bible study now :) Why am I doing it? Well, as a JW, meeting in service a born again Christian who showed me all the failed prophecies about the end, contributed to me leaving. So in a way, I'd like to help another escape. Also, I'd like to help someone turn to Jesus instead of an organization, like I did.

  She gave me the link to a Zoom meeting, which I followed last Sunday. They had a "special talk"...which I did not find special at all. More of the same "do more, unworthy slave". So why would someone from the territory find that encouraging or informative?

  The Watchtower study was so diluted too. Vast majority were giving 1 sentence answers. Is that the norm now? I remember preparing well researched answers from the library, which were at least 2-3 sentences long. I noticed both brothers and sisters were almost in a hurry, who'd provide the shortest, dumbest answer...

  I am looking forward to her next visit "study". I asked her a few questions but she said not to hurry...that we'll provide all the info you need in time. But no skipping, because as in school we go from grade 1 to 2 and so forth...(mind you, I used to be a full time pioneer before I sent my DA letter)

  I wonder if I was ever so arrogant as a JW to assume the Householder was a grade 1 level and I was the teacher.

  Looking forward to any suggestions any might have regarding what to bring up with them next time.
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  wantingtruth

  Tell them what you have found in Bible :

  https://www.facebook.com/Seeker4GodsKingdom/posts/1614000245552054
  
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  enoughisenough

  So do a lot of skipping and quick read all of the lessons and when she comes back inform her and tell her you have questions about certain points of what you skipped ahead and studied. I agree with the dumbing down...I had been thinking that for years-addressing adults as small children...even in the broadcasts...

  Meetings so boring. I rarely ever studied because otherwise I would have been even more bored!

  I have no idea at what point in the new material that 1914 comes up and is related to 607 but secular history doesn't agree with that date.
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  joe134cd

  This question just kills me! Where is Tony Morris.
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  Vanderhoven7

  Do these ladies know that you were one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  If not I would ask them why Jehovah’s Witnesses are against blood transfusions.

  Watchtower Society (WTS) Blood Policies

  NOTE: JWs will always try to divert the topic to say there are wonderful non-blood alternative procedures that can be used instead of blood. My suggestion is that you say you just want to look at what the scriptures say about blood transfusions as wonderful as some of the non-blood procedures may be. Yes, avoid transfusions if possible (i.e. when there is not massive blood loss) but the question you are asking is why do Jehovah's Witnesses say the Bible is against transfusions.

  There are some things I don't understand about your religion:

  1a. Could you explain why JWs believe blood transfusions are unscriptural? (Acts15:29)

  1b. Does Acts 15 mention blood transfusions? (It's implied) Is it implied or are you extrapolating? (Abstain means to abstain!)

  1c. Is it possible that the three dietary restrictions in Acts 15 were temporary; to avoid offending Jewish Christians? Note: regarding food offered to idols: In 1Cor 8 Paul explains clearly that a brother who eats food sacrificed to idols commits no sin except if he risks stumbling his brother.

  1d. Why do you think Orthodox Jews have no problem with blood transfusions?

  1e. Do you think a doctor would be upset if he told a patient to abstain from alcohol – but found out he was using rubbing alcohol on his skin? (objection external vs internal)

  1f. OK would a doctor who told a patient to abstain from meat be upset if the patient later had an liver transplant? (???) Note: A blood transfusion is actually an organ transplant.

  2a. Would a blood transfusion be acceptable to Witnesses if it was their own blood that was stored for transfusion? (No!) Why not? (it's sinful to store blood; it must be poured out)

  Note: This OT rule was for animals the Jews killed themselves to show respect for the life taken. No one was killed to obtain blood for transfusion.

  2b. Are JWs permitted to have blood tests? If it is sinful to store blood, where is the biblical exception that allows JWs to have their blood stored in tubes for lab technicians to test? (only temporarily stored)

  2c. Are JWs permitted to have dialysis? The blood must leave the body to be cleaned, so shouldn't that blood be poured out? (Dialysis is OK because the blood is in a continuous flow back to the body) Where is the rule found that it is OK to remove blood from the body to be cleaned..as long as there is no interruption in it's flow back to the body?

  2d. Is it permitted for hemophiliac JWs to use blood clotting fractions VIII and IX which are derived from the donated blood of others? Is it alright to profit from the sinful actions of others? Let's say a group held a strip-a-thon to gain money for the WTS, could Jehovah's Witnesses accept that money in good conscience? (No) So why is it OK to accept products from immorally stored blood? Also aren't Witnesses leeches when they take these blood products without contributing to the blood bank themselves?

  3a. Which components of blood are acceptable to Jehovah and which ones are not? (the 4 major components disallowed are red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and plasma) What is the scriptural basis for this distinction?

  3b. Why is plasma (55% of blood volume) unacceptable when all elements and fractions in plasma are on the WTS acceptable list? Plasma is made up of 92 % water, plus albumin and fibrinogens and other proteins. So what's the problem? If plasma is made up of entirely acceptable elements – why ban it's use. It's like saying you can eat cheese, bread, lettuce and mayo separately, but you can't eat a cheese sandwich.

  3c. Why are white blood cells banned when 97 percent of the white cells are not found in the blood stream but in organ tissues that are permitted by the WTS to transplant? Note: billions of white blood cells are transferred with every major organ transplant.

  3d. Why are white blood cells banned when 12 times more white blood cells are found in a mother's milk than in the blood stream? Millions are passed from mother to child at every feeding? Seems that Jehovah doesn't abide by the same rules JWs do.

  3e. Do you believe blood is always sacred to God? (Yes) If a Jew had bled some blood from an animal without killing the animal, would the extracted blood have been acceptable as a sacred sacrifice to God? (blood is sacred because it symbolizes life) Is a symbol of life (blood) more valuable than the life that it symbolizes?

  4a. Now regarding the actual eating of blood: Can anything that goes into the mouth of a Christian defile him? Ro.14:14 (???)

  4b.Assuming that there is no one around with a weak conscience, should Christians ask questions of conscience about meat served in the home of a pagan idol worshiper who is known to eat things strangled? I Cor.10:27

  4c. Why do you think Jews could eat animals found dead in their fields (unbled) with relative impunity. They would merely have to wash their clothes and be unclean until evening.

  Levitcus 11:38,39 - "If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening." (see also Leviticus 17:15)

  Note: It took JWs over 70 years (right up to 1945) to find these rules restricting blood use when they are so obvious to JWs now. It's interesting that Jesus appointed the F&DS in 1919 when JWs were still being encouraged to work for the Red Cross as alternative service and give and receive transfusions when necessary?
• 

  WingCommander

  1. Welcome back.

  2. You've been "out" 12 years? Whoa boy!!! Hold on, you're in for a bumpy ride!

  3. JW Broadcasting really fired up AFTER your exit. This is when the switch to greedy televangelism REALLY got rolling full-swing in JW Land. It's been a real shit-show! Tony Morris and in particular, Stephen Lett will make you think you are a baby! Lett talks down to the audience as if they are simpleton morons, much like Heaven's Gate leader Marshall Applewhite did. In fact, they are eerily similar looking in appearance AND mannerisms.

  4. Everything has in fact, been "dumbed down." Below moronic levels, they are now at sub-moronic.

  5. Literature has been cut - SEVERELY. I believe the WatchTower is now only printed like twice a year! Maybe quarterly? The volume went from like 32 pages down to 16? The Awake! magazine I think was actually canceled! As someone born and raised in the 80's, this is a complete shock. Would have never imagined this to happen. In fact, we were always told that as we neared "The End" that preaching and printing would PICK UP as a greater Witness. Guess that's all down the shitter now, huh?
  
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  Diogenesister

  I won't give you anything to ask because I'm sure you know as much & probably much more than I do & Vandy gave you loads, too.

  But one thing I will say. In my experience asking questions is by far the most powerful technique for waking people up. Making statements that clearly debunks their doctrine just shuts them down, as they're trained to do.

  Socratic questioning is the key.

  Of course sometimes you can couch the answers in questions, such as "I heard many early Bible students didn't become Jehovah's witnesses. Do you think it's because they were disappointed when Armageddon didn't come in 1914 as Russell predicted?"
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  enoughisenough

  there is a thread going now about scriptures that don't fit JW theology...you could get some good questioning points there.
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  careful

  You've stated the changes so well:

  Preaching is looking at the cellphone and listening to clips. Those clips are so silly, I have no idea what's so special or complex about them that they cannot summarize in their own words. Why would someone listen to a stranger explain why Bible reading is important to them when the JW at the door can provide their own experience? It is baffling to say the least.

  ... The lessons are so elementary, they're grade 3 level. The dumbing down is unbelieveable.

  How like Jesus and the apostles preached and taught!

  They are all dumb from the top on down now. Likely they have been trained to just repeat the pabulum given them because the GB are afraid of letting anyone think on their own, and that stems from the internet info and the dissemination of sites like JWD. The result is millions of zombies.

  When are you going to drop the bomb that you DAed yourself? Surely they will instantly flee.
  
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  carla

  You are brilliant! I wish you well.