by JeffT 23 Replies latest watchtower scandals
It was when I became an elder I was horrified at the unloving businesslike way everything was done. Jehovah(tm)? No! Jesus? No. governing body? Yes, worship these men.
As far as the 'rot' goes, it isn't always obvious there is rot because of the intense thought control the JWs are under.
And what DOC says above too...... ^^^^^^
The vast majority believe. Some will have doubts but whitewash over them. I really don't think any of the GB think it's BS even if they are struggling to come up with anything deep and meaningful. They gave up with that years ago and now it's just fluff - keep people busy so they don't think about it too much.
I don't think there is a deliberate conspiracy to cover up some knowledge it's all rubbish. I do think there is a deliberate policy to grab money and flip property however.
I think it's quite telling how the GB and it's leadership avoid the media so much. It always baffled me why they hardly ever stand up for their beliefs when controversies arise.
I remember when I was newly baptized in the early 90's and watching the news regarding a mother losing her life after giving birth and had refused a blood transfusion. The media were outside Bethel. I remember Bethelites walking past the media and any answers given were either no comment or discomfort on the faces of those walking past. I remember thinking why don't they get a spokesman to open up the Bible and stand up for why we don't take blood.
I recall a similar attitude when panorama suffer the little children was shown.
I personally think a lot of elders are aware of the rot, but bury their heads in the sand. Think to if all those who have raised their views at judicials. They will know to some degree what's going on. I am convinced my CO is aware of things, but hey company men are company men. Many such ones will tow the line come what may.
Just like the Kingdom, the corruption is invisable. đ
I'm convinced there is much about the WTS, that is invisable.
Investment vehicle
Property fund
But most important, I expect they have very close ties with the US government.
I think they are used as an instrument for rolling out the US politic goals.
But, no proof.
G.
But most important, I expect they have very close ties with the US government. I think they are used as an instrument for rolling out the US politic goals.
Sorry, Gorby, but I think they're too f***ing stupid to carry off a conspiracy like you suggest. (Both the GB/bOrg and the US Gov't.)
If they've grown up in the org, then they've been molded by the "god appointed" "follow the men in charge blindly no matter the logic, even scriptural logic, GB command". Instead of letting the scriptures mold the doctrine, they now seem to desperately twist and change the scriptures to support old debunked beliefs like the slave parable and 1914. Funny how they undid the evil slave class as literal and now it's figurative, but can't seem to do the same for the faithful slave parable. They now are grasping at straws and will fight until they can't deny the truth that they have become what they preached against. I'm just remembering those old wt cartoons with the pope and clergy being ridiculed for doing and being what the witnesses now do and are. So, to the point, the GB as molded by years of indoctrination and self-doctrination, have crushed their own individual critical thinking skills which the Bible says to protect at all costs and have become the blind leading the blind. Humbly submitted...
DoC: Sorry, Gorby, but I think they're too f***ing stupid to carry off a conspiracy like you suggest. (Both the GB/bOrg and the US Gov't.)
Using the word "conspiracy" implies planning. Of course the WTS didn't necessarily plan on doing nefarious things...things that look like a conspiracy can just happen because they are stupid.
Situations that grow from a seed of deception can evolve into a beast that looks like a conspiracy but wasn't planned as such - it just happens because the beast has been grown from a deceitful seed - the WTS is an organization with corrupt roots and a history of deal making with any entity that can further their cause.
Great thread and comments!
I genuinely think most jws believe 100% in the faith, but those that do have doubts, or see the facts for what they are, think that they are personally at fault.
Just like the fable of the "emperors new clothes" (google it if you have not heard of it), no one who sees the reality is confident to actually speak up! With everyone and everything around them constantly ooohing and ahhhing about the "truth", very few will dissent.
There would certainly be persons around "in the know" but who are still just playing the system for whatever they can get out of it (position, prestige or whatever) - or at the very best, are not prepared to take the consequences of doing otherwise. These could be found at all levels in the organisation. Truth be told, I have known a few of them myself!
This situation is by no means unique to the Jehovahs Witnesses, either. An interesting read for me was Albert Speer's Inside the Third Reich. Speer occupied a very privileged position within the Nazi heirarchy, yet was not exactly a fool. Certainly by the latter part of the Nazi era (if not before), he saw through it all as evil. Yet, he readily admitted going along with it simply for what he could get out of it.
- i.e. Speer's background was only that of a humble architect. However, by playing the Nazi system for what he could, Albert Speer got to be Hitler's Minister of War Production - a position that placed him fully in charge of all manufacturing activities throughout occupied Europe, and answerable only to Hitler (at least until his own conscience and the Allied War Crimes Tribunal caught up with him, anyway!)).
Others who lived under communist rule in Eastern Europe tell of similar experiences. By the early 1970s (if not earlier) everybody knew communism was complete nonsense. However, nearly everbody still pretended to go along with it, because they , likewise, were not prepared to take the consequences of doing otherwise.
In addition to this, you can get the situation whereby if people hear enough lies told for long enough (whether told by themselves or others), then they can end up believing it themselves. An example of this was the Englishman, Robert Ford, who was captured during by the Chinese Communist invasion of Tibet. Ford correctly figured that if he ever expected to get an early release from prison, then his best course of action was to pretend to go along with the communist indoctrination process (the so-called "Brainwashing" procedure). This ruse did work for Robert Ford. However, he afterwards said it was also quite scary; towards the end of his period of incarceration, he found himself actually starting to believe the nonsense they were telling him.
I could believe a similar situation to be found amongst at least some of the JWs, and that this could well extend all the way to the top:
- i.e. some have heard the same lies repeated for so long that they now have difficulty differentiating between fact and fiction.
Sad,mad, bad - plus a lot of other things besides!
Alarm bells went off for me when I was reading under the heading LIE in the Insight volumes. In there it says "true Christians are under no obligation to divulge truthful information to someone who is not entitled to it."
Let that sink in: True Christians are under no obligation to divulge truthful information to someone who is not entitled to it.
They preface that statement by saying malicious lying is unacceptable, but then continue with the thought that it's quite all right to massage the facts in order to keep the WTS out of trouble with Worldly Authoritiesâ˘. We saw a fair bit of that happening when Geoffrey Jackson was being questioned by the ARC, under oath.
How far does it go? I've seen JWs blow off hard questions from Householders⢠in the Door-To-Door⢠Ministryâ˘. I've seen people keeping secrets on the basis that the other person "is not entitled" to the truth of a matter (not involving confidential legal or medical stuff, just lying about mundane stuff to someone else so there would be no awkwardness for them for not including the other person in a social activity).
Finally, it occurred to me: This very line in the Publications⢠(its predecessor, Aid to Bible Understanding contained the exact same words) gave the GB a lot of leeway in 'not divulging truthful information' to the Rank and File JWs⢠in the Publicationsâ˘, in Talks⢠from the Platformâ˘, and in their interpretation of Scriptureâ˘. That would account for all the academic dishonesty in the Creation book and other Publicationsâ˘. JWs would point at the bibliography and automatically think "Wow, look at all the Worldly⢠research that backs up our beliefs!" and yet, when someone (Alan Feuerbacher, aka alanf) decided to do their due diligence and look up the quotes, almost without exception the quotes were misquoted, taken out of context, or completely bastardized to support WT doctrine when the original quote did nothing of the sort. It proves, without a shred of doubt, that the GB doesn't consider its own die-hard followers to be "entitled to" the truth.
When that thought crystallized in my mind, the whole house of cards fell apart and I was no longer under their spell. When I've discussed this with on-the-fence JWs, it did the same thing to them.
