Please Help Me !!!! Desperate !!!!

by Puternut 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Special K

  Hi Puternut..

  nice and slow...........

  Be yourself,.. ..Open minded, open arms.. Not running down their mother is good.. and maybe not talking about religion is good at this point.

  What I think they need here is to build up trust in you..(not that your untrustworthy.. but that is what they are programmed with)

  The article in that elder book.. was superb. ...I might want to show them that and then leave it up them but not go into deep knock J.W. religion block off .. conversations.

  Your relationship with your daughter is fragile at this point..Let love, trust and mutual respect (they are young adults) lead your conversations. Sincere interest in their activities and show them your activities.

  Make yourself available.. and "SMILE".. alot...

  Being true to yourself and your convictions is a powerful modeling tool..

  sincerely

  Special K
• 

  xjw_b12

  puter.. I would like to give you advice, but I cannot. I do remember reading Amazing's post(s) that Shotgun referred to and I concur.

  As for advice to go back, to pretend, to be a hypocrite .. I don't think so.

  You/re not living with your children, and after "having your eyes wide opened" you couldn't live with yourself.

  And Tashawaa. That was a beautiful post. Brought tears to my eyes. Thank you.
• 

  JamesThomas

  Dear Puter, If it were me in your shoes, this is what I would say, and then let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps you can gleam something from this, or perhaps not. I would bring my children together and establish the fact of my unconditional love for them. If they didn't already know, I would make it clear how I will always love them no matter. There in nothing they, or anyone could do or say that would interfere with my love for them. I will be there for them always. I may not support what they do, I may be extremely angry with them at times, but underneath all that, deeper and more significant than all that will remain my unending love. The love is innate within me and lives and breaths from a tree of sustenance whose roots run endlessly deeper than circumstance. I would then explain how once unconditional love is discovered within oneself, it is like a flame or light that helps one see how mans interpretation of God, our beloved Source, is drastically limited and incorrect. Explain to them how there is a love in your heart for them far greater than the very limited and conditional "love" shown by the god in the Bible, or at least the literal interpretation of. Say what you need to say to make it clear how your heart will not allow you to worship a God, a Most High, whose morals are far lower than your own.....for certainly you would never ever hurt, let alone kill your daughters or other people. Explain to them how your love for them helped you see that you can not truly and sincerely love a god (an idea of god) who will kill those who do not accept him. Tell them how your sense of God is expanding to be far more than mans religious interpretations and concepts of God. Obviously, if there is a love pure and un-conditional in your own heart......then the true Gods love must be infinitely greater and never ever less.. Share with them how your new respect will never again allow other men to present to you a lesser god. Lay naked your honesty, sincerity and love from your heart. Let them see that to return to the Witness beliefs would be to disparage and belittle God, something the love for your daughters has taught you, you can never do....you would rather die. There is nothing more powerful than laying open your heart in this way. This Puternut, is where I am coming from. The words used don't really explain at all, but I feel that all of us in our heart of hearts feel pretty much the same, we just may not realize it. I feel that if you are not aware of such deep feeling, they are -- nonetheless -- there. Go out in the wilderness and camp for a couple days alone if you can; and dwell with your heart and see what you find there. I hope this helps friend. j
• 

  Sassy

  I think that Tashawaa's post touched on so many important points. I just knew someone would have some good advice for you. And the fact she can look at it from your children's prosective/shoes, what a benefit her words are. The biggest thing I feel strongly about is the fact that running down either the religion or their mother is so wise as mentioned to avoid. NOT an easy thing to do. But doing so will hurt the kids. Running down mom will tell the children that a part of them is bad (since after all, are they not a part of each of you?) and it certainly will make no points in their book (EVEN if mom is tearing you down), not to mention it will be a heavier load for them to emotionally handle. Running down the religion will solidify everything those in the WTS are telling them that you are bad association. Keep that out of it. That way if you do get to spend time with them, it will focus in stead on a healthier relationship and one they need, rather than feeling cornered or guilty for them to spend time with you because they are hearing things they might not be able to handle.

  I also think that using the elders book is a good idea too
• 

  Carmel

  For sure be happy around them! Show them the bright side of life out of the cave. Example will replace a thousand words.

  cavaman
• 

  Puternut

  Tashawaa,

  Thanks for that post. I relate to you concerning the fact that my father was also df'd, though not divorced. He was out for 18 years, and I was pressured by the elders at that time, not to have ANY contact with him. I didn't agree with that stand point even at that time, but like an obedient puppy, I followed the rules. However I missed him for all those long years. His health declined, and had an anurism. He turned into a vegetable, and was promptly called on by the elders. He, with his limited mind, got reinstated. And came to the US to visit us. I didn't recognize him. He was a totally different man. There was a gap of 18 years, that had passed. I had raised two girls and he had never met them. Last year he died. And I miss him terribly. I have allowed myself to do this to him. And I cannot forgive myself for having turned my back on him. For all those years I still loved him unconditionally. Now it's too late, I can't have him back.

  I know that talking down to my children about their beliefs is not the answer. And I have not done that. I am responsible after all to have brainwashed them myself in their beliefs. And their mom is talking plenty about me. I haven't said anything to them about that. As a matter of fact I still call her 'mom' instead of 'your mother'. And they appreciate that.

  Patience is a virtue. And it's hard not to call them, when you sit alone in your house holding the pictures of them on your hands. Or looking through a photo album, when you were having fun with them at the beach. I feel like they have been ripped away from me. And I have little power.

  Like you mentioned, my oldest was 'trying' to spoil it last night at the restaurant. And my youngest noticed her mean behaviour. My dinner had just been served and I pushed it aside, because I had lost my appetite. I couldn't say much in reply, because I know she was angry. Her world has been turned upside down, and she is bitter. And I know this is part of her healing process as well. But it was hard, after not having seen them for so long. I wasn't exprecting a 'great' time. But I was hoping for at least some family dialogue, that would be at least on a friendly level. I am trying to be so careful and I feel like I am walking on egg shells. Everytime I open my mouth, I get a load full from them. I just didn't know what to say to them to start repairing things. My eyes were flooded with tears, and my voice was quivering. I was at a loss for words. This is all new to me.

  But your suggestions on not allowing that was helpful. How long I will have to wait now for my next visit, remains to be seen.
• 

  ESTEE

  Puternut wrote:

  my father was also df'd, though not divorced. He was out for 18 years, and I was pressured by the elders at that time, not to have ANY contact with him. I didn't agree with that stand point even at that time, but like an obedient puppy, I followed the rules.

  Argh! I know what you mean here. The mould has been made, the pattern set...

  My mom was disfellowshipped while my children were at an impressionable age. I did not shun her for ten years ... UNTIL Elder Busy-Body wrote me a letter and threatened to disfellowship me if I continued to have contact with her! I was devastated ... It was a very difficult decision to make for me. Nevertheless, I relented and shunned my mother for the next five years, until she was reinstated. Of course, my children saw my example ~~ and now they figure that I will never come back as long as they have contact with me. They believe now that the only way that I will come back is if they "rightfullyTM" shun me. So they shun me 100% ~~ absolutely no contact!!!

  My son lives in a different province, I found this out through my ex-sister-in-law. He did not even inform me of his move. As far as he is concerned, I don't even deserve to know where he is. Like the dubs teach, as long as we are disfellowshipped, we are to be treated like we are dead, because we have no chance at living in the New SystemTM...

  What they don't realize is they are the ones living in the fantasy. We are living in the real world.

  I have gone on with my life, Puternut. I do what I love doing, which is my work and my dancing. I have taken more than nine years of therapy to heal from the ravages of the jw cult.

  My adive is to take care of Puternut first. Get help to shed those awful dubisms that bind and enslave. Remember that we are not bound any longer by dub rules, as much as our family members would like us to be enslaved along with them. Their rules still affect us because of their shunning us, however.

  I just figure if we find our way to a peaceful place and we are happy in our own right ~~ and it is possible ~~ that is the best thing we can show our children. They need to know that as unbelievable as it may seem to them, we can be happy outside of dub-dumb.

  Be glad that your children will see you when you call a "Family Business Meeting". You might just want to "invent" reasons to have family meetings and continue to see them like that when possible. At least that is something. Continue to assure them of your love.

  Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more...

  ESTEE
• 

  dustyb

  i kinda hate to say this, but you were a JW, so use JW tactics......if you catch my drift. look up verses in the bible and explain to them that it isn't wrong to talk to you and such...just my worthless 19 year old opinion
• 

  Sentinel

  This is a tough one for you. Your daughters are not little girls, they are teenagers. They are at a place in their life where they are "thinking". They really do need you in their life. The best way to teach any young adult is simply by example. You can win their trust just by being their dad.

  You need to spend time with them regularly--together, and one on one. Don't even discuss the issues of your df or your feelings. Show them by example that you are living your life; prove to them that the most important thing is love and compassion. Don't accept the labeling, be happy and joyful.

  It would be wrong to accept discipline from them. You are the parent and you do know what you are doing. Free will is very important. They should not judge you while in your company. Explain to them that they need to relax and just be your daughters. You just want to be their father. If they do have questions about their belief system, they will open up to you. Wouldn't that be wonderful for all of you?!

  Keep us informed. You will be in my thoughts.

  /<
• 

  freein89

  Okay Puter,

  When I was the age of your daughters, I would definitely have towed the JW line on this. Kids that age are not able to have gray areas, its just not the way they operate. So normally I would not condone or recommend lying, but perhaps for the sake of your girls, you could perhaps say things that allow them to draw the conclusion that you may go back.

  Don't get all specific about it. Just use a little reverse "theocratic warfare". I'm sure your girls want to believe that you want to be in "the truth" with them and you would only have to let them believe for a while until you can let them see that you are still their Daddy and not the devil in disquise.

  Just let them believe, don't do or say anything that they could hold you to. Just use the JW way. You know. Season your saying with salt. Apples of gold in silver carving, blah blah blah. Then you can let your example speak for you. How nice and kind and loving you are. Good luck.

  Deb