Governing Buzzards - Part 6 - Broken foundation of Russellism (page 2)

shotgun

Jim...I never imagined Rutherford as a good guy

True North...it's interesting that you use these two words together...very appropriate

peculiar to Russell

Amazing

True North,

Are there any doctrines peculiar to Russell that are still accepted by the Watchtower org. these days?

Yes, there are at least seven. 1. The concept that Jesus returned invisibly in a Second Presence. 2. The Anointed Co-Rulers with Christ being limited to 144,000. 3. Eternal punishment being the grave, and not a literal Hell Fire. 4. The Times of the Gentiles ending / the importance of 1914, but for different reasons. 5. The we are in the Last Days, awaiting the Great Tribulation and Armageddon. 6. God is not a Trinity. 7. The Soul is not immortal and dies when the body dies. I am sure that there are others, but I can't think of what they are right now. Jim W.

RR

1. The concept that Jesus returned invisibly in a Second Presence.

That is true, however Russell believed till his death in 1916 that Christ returned in 1874, this was changed in the 1930s to reflect 1914 and the chronology was finally developed by Fed Franz in the 1960s I believe to reflect the 1914 date which led to the 1975 fiasco

2. The Anointed Co-Rulers with Christ being limited to 144,000.

True, but Russell did not believe that heaven was limited to the 144,000, he believed the "Great Crowd" would also be in heaven, serving before the throne, as oppose to ON the throne. Rusell did not limit the true Church to just his following. believing there were true Christians in the nominal systems. There was no "we are jehovah's visible organization" in Russell's day.

4. The Times of the Gentiles ending / the importance of 1914, but for different reasons.

Yes, the difference having EVERYTHING to do with the Jews and their restoration, and nothing to with Watchtower history in the book of revelation.

6. God is not a Trinity.

True, but Russell worshipped Jesus and even admitted to praying to him. There is much more references to Jesus than there were to Jehovah. Russell taught that Christians were witnesses of Jesus and that the Jews were witnesses of Jehovah. RR

True North

Amazing,

Of the seven doctrines you cite, how many were invented by Russell as opposed to having been acquired by him from others?

And BTW, I'm really enjoying your series on the GB and am looking forward to the succeeding installments.

TN

Amazing

HI RR and True,

Yes, RR, your clarifications are correct, I was just giving general connections to True North's question. In the book "Prophecy" published in 1919, By the Society, written by Rutherford, at the bottom of Page 65 he still promoted the 1874 date. My point was the aspect of "invisible presence" which is almost unique to Jehovah's Witnesses ...

True, I am not sure how many were invented by Russell ... but the Invisible Second Presence is what got him started ... he likely picked this up from the Christadelphians (founded by John Thomas) when he was supposedly wandering around Allegeny, PA looking for truth and bumped into a Bible study group ... I think the only real thing that Russell invented was the Watchtower Society ... and, I will be revealing some thing cool about that too ... stay tuned for Part 7 about Rutherford's mistress, and Part 8, who was the real first President of the Watchtower Society ... it is a cool piece of history. .

RR

True, I am not sure how many were invented by Russell ... but the Invisible Second Presence is what got him started ... he likely picked this up from the Christadelphians (founded by John Thomas) when he was supposedly wandering around Allegeny, PA looking for truth and bumped into a Bible study group ... I think the only real thing that Russell invented was the Watchtower Society ... and, I will be revealing some thing cool about that too ... stay tuned for Part 7 about Rutherford's mistress, and Part 8, who was the real first President of the Watchtower Society ... it is a cool piece of history.

Russell was never affiliated with the Christadelphians. He learned about the presence from B.W. Keith, who discovered it in the Emphatic Diaglott. Russell and Barbour believed the Lord's return would be visible, but chanaged it based on Keith's findings. Barbour eventually, threw out the presence and other belief systems.

bwt ... Prophecy was not published in 1919, try 1929.

As to the "dingy basement"? It was Jonas Wendell, and the group meeting there was the Advent Christian Church.

RR

stillajwexelder

I have already cut and pasted into a word document -- thankyou

willyloman

Amazing & RR: Thanks to both of you; there's more stimulating thought going on in this thread than in a year of WT studies at the KH!

Governing Buzzards - Part 6 - Broken foundation of Russellism

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