USA Election 2004

by Simon 242 Replies latest social current

  • dubla
    dubla

    patio-

    But that doesn't mean they've continued to blindly support a cause when evidence is failing to support it.

    are you saying that bush still "blindly" supports the faulty intelligence? heres a link for you:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3450151.stm

    also, what does it really matter what the dems are saying now? does their backtracking somehow justify their earlier support for the war (in your opinion)? by changing their stance, can they somehow reverse the actions they voted for (invading iraq)? is the blood, in your mind, somehow wiped off of their hands because they now have a new view?

    aa

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim
    Bush lied, people died.

    Six,

    Again, that's just not true. On what specifically did Bush lie? For a lie to have occured it means Bush would have known the intelligence was wrong and acted on it anyhow...that's just not the case...going all the way back to the first Gulf War, through Clinton, up to the statements by Mr Kay, the intelligence services NOT JUST of the US, but of the UK, France, Germany, Russia, the sources available to the UN....ALL agreed there were WMD. So where's the lie? In fact, Kay said that given the intelligence we had we made the right decision.

    As to other parts of that intelligence, i.e. links to terrorist groups (NOT 9-11 specifically...as the US never tried to make that case) there is undeniable proof of that...Kay says that Iraq DID have Ricin, and the Ricin found in the UK can be traced back to Iraq.

    So I'm asking you...where is the lie, agreeing that a lie is KNOWING the intelligence was wrong, or even worse, making it up. We know it wasn't made up unless you're ready to say Clinton, the UK, Germany, France, and Russia were all in on it.

    The other fun part of all this is that we now see that those countries in the UN most oppossed to the War, France Russia and Germany, along with at least one quite vocal British MP were receiving pay offs from Saddam.

    So, what, specifically, was the lie? All the intelligence showed that Iraq possessed WMD...and Kay is saying that even Saddam and his General Staff thought he had them...that only the scientists knew they weren't making them (assumming that their testimony is true). Where and what SPECIFALLY is the lie?

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Six,

    By the way, don't rely on Wes Clark as a "real man" he's a real politician is all...fired from his last job in the military. As to Zinni, how would he know what was and was not reported by the intelligence service...he wasn't getting what the President and the Intelligence Committee got...see that (Ret) after his name...he's RETIRED...OUT OF THE LOOP!

  • dubla
    dubla

    six-

    The intelligence did not call for a war.

    john kerry thought it did....see my above quotes.

    aa

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    By the way, don't rely on Wes Clark as a "real man" he's a real politician is all...fired from his last job in the military.

    Cut the bullshit.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    For a lie to have occured it means Bush would have known the intelligence was wrong and acted on it anyhow...

    ...and cut the bullshit.

    You Yeru, were wrong. I was also wrong. But you keep trying to justify it, and it's gross. Especially coming from a military man. You should be ashamed.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell
    And this is where the conversation went sour...Bush didn't lie...Bush used the intelligence that Clinton used...and that the rest of the had as well. If David Kay is to be believed Saddam and his generals all thought the Iraqis still had WMD and the only ones that knew they were destroyed, lost sent to Syria, or whatever were the scientists. A lie is a very specific thing...it means Bush would have KNOWN the information he was putting out was incorrect...NO ONE knew it was incorrect.

    It may have been intelligence gathered while Clinton was the President but instead of verifying the intelligence information, Bush was too quick to commit American and Iraqi lives to faulty information. Is this not a good commander and chief to verify your facts first before going to war? Bush and company were just reaching to find an excuse to start a war, they built a case for war on faulty intelligence and is now trying to justify their decision.

    As far as Kerry is concerned I am not overly impressed with him either. I think he is not much different than Bush. Neither to me looks like presidential material and I don't think they really have the average working man's interest at heart. The average hard working, tax payer ultimately pays in the end.

    Will

  • Gadget
  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    SixofNine,

    I don't know if you read this about what General Wes Clark had to say and was later misquoted. The actually quote was;

    ?As far as I know, I haven't seen any substantial evidence linking Saddam's regime to the al-Qaida network, though such evidence may emerge. I'm saying there hasn't been any substantiation of the linkage of the Iraqi regime to the events of 9/11 or the fact that they are giving weapons of mass destruction capability to al-Qaida.?

    ?According to all estimates made available he does not now have these weapons.?

    ?Thus far, substantial evidence has not been made available to link Saddam's regime to the Al Qaeda network.?

    ?The resolution need not at this point authorize the use of force.?

    ?The more nearly unanimous the resolution, the greater its impact in the diplomatic efforts underway.?

    ?In the near term, time is on our side, and we should endeavor to use the UN if at all possible.?

    ?Force should be used as the last resort; after all diplomatic means have been exhausted, unless information indicates that further delay would present an immediate risk to the assembled forces and organizations. This action should not be categorized as preemptive.?

  • ThiChi

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