Have they changed their views about transexuals??

by Mulan 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    There is a pioneer in a nearby congregation, that my JW friend told me about recently. This person is a woman, but used to be a man. Everyone has accepted her, and they all talk about what a good example, and what a wonderful pioneer she is. She used to be the son of people we know. It sounds pretty odd to me, but she swears it is true.

    About 30 years ago, there was a person who was studying that was a transexual and my stepfather was an elder in that cong. He said the Society told them she couldn't get baptized because of the passage in the Bible about a person who had been made into a eunuch, and that she would actually be getting baptized as a proxy for another person who doesn't really exist. Too weird for me.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    G'day Mulan,

    About 30 years ago, there was a person who was studying that was a transexual and my stepfather was an elder in that cong. He said the Society told them she couldn't get baptized because of the passage in the Bible about a person who had been made into a eunuch, and that she would actually be getting baptized as a proxy for another person who doesn't really exist.

    That certainly was the case but, like everything else about the Borg, it's changing!

    Remember how we had to check in "the latest" bound volume to see what the current "understanding" was?!

    Guess the "present truth" is not "the Troof" we knew, eh?

    Cheers to you and Big Red,

    Ozzie

  • xjw_b12
    xjw_b12
    He said the Society told them she couldn't get baptized because of the passage in the Bible about a person who had been made into a eunuch, and that she would actually be getting baptized as a proxy for another person who doesn't really exist.

    Yup. That is how Jesus would look at it, all right. A person who dosen't really exist. So sad, and so wrong. How would Jesus have handled that situation, especially if she came up to him and "touched" his "outer garments" ?

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Sorry babe... but you don't exist!

    LMAO!

  • Mysterious
    Mysterious

    Well there was an article (Alternate Lifestyles Does God Approve, October 8 2003) in the last year that addressed homosexuality and transgender issues. To me it doesn't seem that they have relaxed the subject so perhaps it was a regional blip.

    I also dug this up on a gay JW page (they advocate the society's position on homosexuality)

    What is the Christian position? Can a baptised Christian who has Transsexual feelings (sometimes called Gender Identity Disorder by the medical profession) seek Gender Reassignment? Can one who has had it and wishes to become one of Jehovah?s Witnesses, be baptised in the reassigned gender? (Can a person, for example, who was born and registered as a man but now lives after surgery completely as a woman, be baptised and function in the Congregation as a woman?)

    So far as I understand the position, the answer to the questions in the previous paragraph is No.

    Of course, there is nothing at all to stop an interested person who has had gender reassignment from having Bible studies with Jehovah?s Witnesses and attending meetings where they would hopefully be warmly welcomed. But it seems that it would not be possible to progress to baptism while living in the reassigned gender role.

    In a lengthy, kind and helpful personal letter to me from 25 Colombia Heights, in response to a query on someone?s behalf, the Watchtower Society wrote:

    ?However, the Christian Congregation would not be able to allow a person to live a life opposite to the sex he or she is biologically and to remain a part of the congregation. This would be true even if one submitted to an operation that changed the physical body to give the appearance of one of the opposite sex. God?s law does not permit a man to represent himself as a woman, or a woman to represent herself as a man. (Deuteronomy 22:5)??..?

    The above quotation refers to one who is already a baptised Christian, and as I said, there is nothing to stop an interested Transsexual person from attending and enjoying the meetings.

    Doubtless in giving the law to the Israelites against cross-dressing, Jehovah knew very well the possible reasons why some Israelites might want to do it, and that for some of them the reason was that they too had Transsexual feelings. The God of the Israelites was ?the one teaching you to benefit yourself?, and knew that for those with those feelings the way to benefit themselves was not to seek to conform the outward appearance to the inner conviction.
  • Puternut
    Puternut

    So if a man trapped in a woman's body has sex with a man, does that make him gay or straight?

    Or if this man who is now a woman has sex with a woman, does that make him lesbian or straight?

    I am soooo confused..................

  • Gretchen956
    Gretchen956

    I heard of a case awhile back where a transgendered, post operative was called into a committee meeting after which she was so despondent she took her own life. Of course no one "knows" what happened, but the story goes they told her that she was a male and god would always consider him a male and he had transgressed and sinned by the surgury.

    I know transgendered individuals, both of them are females who were born into male bodies. This was something I had a hard time understanding, so I sought out these individuals to get to know them better and better understand their life and the change. In both cases they told me that they had always from the time they were small children, felt like they were put into the wrong clothes, played with the wrong toys, just everything male that they were directed to, assigned to, or given was for someone else. They always connected with women, they thought like their women friends, etc. When and after they had the surgury, it felt like they were where they were supposed to be. My understanding is, many of these were born with an xxy gene or something. I have also known one individual that was a hermaphrodite and actually was born with both male and female organs.

    In the cases of these friends of mine, they have always felt like women. So they don't like other women in the same way as men do. I don't know how to explain it better than that. They identify as lesbians, and so thats how I respectfully address them.

    I have recently been introduced to a woman who is engaged to a F to M who is post operative. Her fiance is also a police officer. They are going through hell right now in that testosterone environment. I know what I'm talking about here because I was married to one for 15 years. You would never know by looking at her fiance that he was ever a woman. Doesn't look like one doesn't act like one, never did.

    Well I see that I digress. Originally my point was, my experience based on this suicide story is that they have not changed their official policy.

    Gretchen

  • ryan2003
    ryan2003

    sorry this is a bit off topic , I was wondering, does anyone know where this press release concering a ban on religion came from? I think it is interesting, but I would like to see the source, you never know what somebody could cook up in this age of hoax's. Anyways, hope all have a good day.

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    Check out the story yourself. I seriously doubt it.

    Gays, transsexuals, cross-dressers, transvestites, and anything else in that realm are all still considered sexual aberrations by the WTBTS, and not accepted at all. However, I'm sure there are a few of them among the R&F just playing the part of the good little Witness so they're not easily detected.

    DY

  • RAYZORBLADE
    RAYZORBLADE

    I think it would be better, if and when, a person who is transgendered (former JW) could speak on their own behalf than us here for them; mere speculation. I do know of one, but I do not know if she lurks or has even posted here.

    Doubtfully Yours: is correct, I have nothing to add there. I lived it: not accepted at all .

    Mysterious: I believe I know the site you are mentioning, a very 'WTS apologist site', and a stance I would stay completely clear of. If I recall, it admonishes almost complete abstinence which renders one, asexual. Sad.

    Again, I cannot speak on behalf of any trangendered person: they know themselves better than anyone, and probably face things, way tougher than any of us can imagine.

    Then again, I would hope they could come here and speak for themselves.

    I hope that this thread, doesn't spiral out of control.

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