"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Crazyguy

  Ask him why his bible says at Revelations 5:9-10 that they will rule as kings on the earth, when in the original Greek it says they will reign as priests on the earth? No actual Greek scriptures says that any Christians will be kings not one in any book?

  Tell him that the oldest bible in Greek ever found the codex sicanicus doesn't have jesus assending to heaven in the book of Mark, thought to be the first gospel. This bible also has two more books in the New Testament. So ask why wants up with that and why was it that man was able to change the Bible so much if it was from god?
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  blondie

  COE

  The first question i will pose is: What is the scriptual basis for interpreting the 144000 as a figure to be taken literally? Almost everything else in Revelation 7 is interpreted symbolically, as fx. the 144000 coming from the 12 tribes, and that 12000 will be taken from each.

  --------------Also the 12 tribes listed in Revelation are not the 12 tribes listed in the OT, instead of both sons of Joseph, Manasseh and Ephraim, Dan is dropped and Levi inserted.

  Here is the list of 12 tribes of Israel from Genesis, Numbers and Revelation:

  
  
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  CitizenofEarth

  Thanks to you all very much, you have cleared my doubts about what actions i must use. I will make good use of your advice.

  To the ones who provided some research too, together with some sound questions i could pose, i appreciate that very much also. It helps me along.

  Tommorow the hard part comes - i will not go unprepared like before.
• 

  Giordano

  Doctrinal issues, in my opinion, is not the way to make a point. In part because many JW's don't care about changes and new 'lite'. The men are more concerned about their social life and standing . The sisters also enjoy their friends and hope that they and their families will make it into their Paradise Earth.

  I have always advised that if it is necessary to explain one's change of attitude the Pedophile issue is the one that is hardest to defend there is no scripture that can be found including the two witness rule that can clarify the Societies position.

  Google JW and their Pedophile problems.......and check out the ARC.

  Here's a recap about a gathering storm that will descend on the JW world as other countries investigate, go to trial or hold investigatory commissions.

  Some dreadful facts regarding child sexual abuse within the congregation's of Jehovah’s Witnesses as part of the Australian Royal Commission (ARC) hearings:

  • The child sexual abuse cases span 77 years, beginning in 1938 right up to 2015.
  • There was at least 1732 children who were sexually abused. Over 650 of those children were abused by family members.
  • At least 170 of the children sexually abused were under the age of 5.
  • There was 1006 alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse......... Of that number, 15 were women.
  • 579 of the alleged abusers confessed to their crime(s). 306 did not. Of the remaining 121, it’s unclear whether they confessed or not.
  • 95 of the alleged child abusers were not Jehovah’s Witnesses when they committed their first sexual abuse.
  • 65 of the alleged child abusers were ministerial servants; 42 were elders; 8 were pioneers; and 1 was a circuit overseer.
  • At least 56 ministerial servants and 27 elders were deleted from their roles. 6 elders and 2 ministerial servants were re-appointed to their roles.
  • Over 33 ministerial servants, 13 elders and 1 pioneer were disfellowshipped.
  • 14 ministerial servants, 4 elders and 1 pioneer were convicted for Child Sexual Abuse by the Australian authorities, yet 3 of those elders and 3 of those ministerial servants were never disfellowshipped for their crimes.

  • Not a single instance of Child Sexual Abuse was ever reported to the authorities by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
• 

  John_Mann

  Ask if he believes the apostasy was total since the death of the Apostles until 1918.

  If yes, why Jesus said His Church would never fail since He promised to personally care for the Church survival until His second coming? Jesus failed?

  If not, why create a new church like the Watchtower.

  Ask as a sincere doubt and you will see a living Laocoon in front of you.
• 

  notalone

  There is one thing that really woke my husband up. It was the interlinear. The society printed one when I was younger. I got one off amazon. Get every bible the society ever printed.Then get a Strong's concordance. The society use to refer to it once upon a time. Then when the study starts start looking up everything have the books stacked all around the table.. Tell him things had become stale and that you realized after prayer that you really had to get a deeper understanding. Use books nothing electronic if you can help it.Say electronic books get to you eyes after a while. This takes time, alot of time. Try learning some key Hebrew words use them and their definitions. Refer to the Septuagint. If there is one thing they are not particularly fond of is real study. Just see how far this study gets. Who knows you might wake someone else up.
  
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  BluesBrother

  Personally, I think there is a lot to be said for playing along a bit, keeping them sweet. Saying just enough to pacify them. You don't really want to be estranged from your family yet, do you.

  I would politely cut right to fundamental things, in a spirit of sincere questions not argument. Remind him of Jude: 22 "mercy to those with doubts"

  Why is this world still here 103 years after Christ's presence began? Dates of 1914, 1925,1975........Holy Spirit can't be wrong so the Society must be out of line....

  The very morality of the Armageddon doctrine..can we really say that non believers in the WTS should die, what does The Bible say?

  Above all stress your love of God and desire to do what is right. At the end, thank him kindly ,promise to think about what he has said and continue praying about it.

  Hopefully he will go away satisfied and let the matter rest

  I
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  Witness My Fury

  As you are baptised then your options are limited unless you dont mind being disfellowshipped and kicked out of the home.

  So if you dont intend or want that then dont try to be clever and win anything here, either avoid it altogether or play along biding your time until you can quit on your own terms.
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  wannaexit

  How is your support system? is all your family jw's or do you have family on the outside. (aunt, grandfather). It's possible there may be help right in your own city.
  

  If not then you may have to grin and bear it for a few years until you can get on your own feet. But in the meantime you can make good use of your time by educating yourself so you can support yourself.

  
  
  
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  jwfacts

  https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/144000.php

  has some figures to show that there have already been more than 144,000.

  You could run through the scripture being figurative and that there seems to have need more than 144,000, and then ask "when do you think there will be new light and the doctrine be changed to being a figurative number?" Then when it happens the elder will recall what you said and remember you, maybe even as a prophet.