by darkuncle29 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Do you believe in fate? How have you reconciled that with freedom of choice?
I do not believe in fate in an absolute, linear sense.
I do believe that there is purpose to all things. I think it is the choices that we face that are 'fated', and not the descision. At that point new possibilities are created and set up, for new choices.
What do you think?
I do believe in fate to a certain degree.Ever dreamed a dream and then have it happen?
The dream thing happens alot. Not the whole dream or event, but just some simple thing that I notice was in both dream and waking.
Have you worked out at all the thought mechanics of how you describe fate? Is your whole life one fated event that you can not change?
Reading Romeo and Juliet in my freshmen classes we just talked about fate today...("I am fortune's fool" and the "star-crossed lovers"...fate is everywhere in this play).
We were talking about how Lord Capulet blames Juliet's death on fate and not the fact that he rushed her into marrying Paris.
One of my students said, "Fate seems to be a nice way to remove any responsiblity from yourself". Pretty profound for 15 if you ask me.
I have to agree. I don't believe in fate. It just doesn't make sense in my life. This of course could be my need to be a control-freak manifesting itself. I like to think I make who I am. If I do or don't do something, if something does or does not happen for me it has nothing to do with fate.
That's the cynic in me I guess.
I think that nothing is written in stone!
"Fate seems to be a nice way to remove any responsiblity from yourself"
Thank you Joannadandy! That is exactly what I was aiming for. I don't like the term fate for this, but the part that I still somewhat think is 'fate' is that he (Capulet?) was to be confronted with the choice: let his daughter marry her love or force her to marry Paris. And there are many other choices he could have made. And those choices would have led to more choices, each setting up a new fate/time line as it were.
Maybe I'm on crack. But I do like the idea of all of us being responsible for our own lives.
There is an issue with that though that comes up, that I am loath to explore on here. If it does, then I will 'go there'.
I agree with you Kat that nothing is solidly fixed.
I have noticed themes that run through life like the many threads and curds that bind us. I have a friend who collects toothbrushes (don't ask). He once told me about a special one he got over in Denmark (or some place like that). A few days later I found one of the dame brushes in my local pharmacy down on the bottom shelf in a dusty box in the corner. A couple of weeks later my sister found the same toothbrushes at another off the wall dented-can store. It had been years since my friend had bought his toothbrush in a foreign country You could call this fate or a miracle I suppose. hmmm...
Sista-Were those new or used toothbrushes?
J/K
Like you said, "noticed themes". How many people do you think would actually be aware of things like that? I am not saying that toothbrushes have some universal meaning. But that you noticed the connection in your life is what mattered. Interacting with those little things that we notice, is what I think makes life interesting.
i don't believe in fate to the fullest....but sometimes it seems like something was supposed to happen. maybe it was a vision or a dream (yes i'm a prophet), but sometimes i'll just wake up out of a deep sleep and say naaaaa, it won't happen. but, it happens! like for instance, this one's funny
I was dreaming of going to school one day. I woke up and left my grandma's house, and as i was driving down the street, i saw a cop car over at the quick trip getting something to eat (probably some doughnuts ya know). Then i was driving down the street and i saw an old H-1 hummer for sale, and i was like, ya, thats more pimp than the other hummers. Then i woke up. So guess what i did? I left grandma's house (in the exact same clothes i was wearing in my dream), i drove past that same quicktrip with that same cop, and i drove past that one same H-1 hummer and said the same damn thing....then i was like uhhhh, my head's gonna explode. fate it seems....
DeJa vu is the reult of our brains seeking patterns to associate. Our minds work as story writing machines creating narratives that often include details not actually presently experienced but pulled from the memory unconsciously. Deja vu is the sensation that occurs when our conscious mind catches itself doing normally subconscious association. Some peoples minds experience this more often than others. These are the Shirely Mclains of the world. Swearing that we dreamt an experience before it happened is a common rationalization of that phenomenon. In fact our minds do not dream coherent narratives at all. Random firings in the brain(often in regions recently used, hence the incorporation of images and sensations recently encountered) are processed thru the amygdala or hypocampus (i forget) where in there are woven into a narrative of sorts in the act of recall. For a test, write down the dream you had at the moment you awake. compare that with experiences the day before. There will generally be correspondeces. Then at the end of the day compare the events with the dream you had as you recalled it. Do this for a week. This type of scientific approach has been done and dreams were not found to have any relationship to the future, but much relationship with the past. Selective perception, which means forgetting or ignoring the majority of sights and sounds etc. while taking note of a select few or one, is the reason we see coincidences like the toothbrush story. Our minds, always seeking patterns, takes special note of one when it occurs. Ask, was I looking for that style brush before I was asked to? Could I then just have not noted the style before? Does this experience happen often or seldomly as expected by normal statistical probability? How many similar occasions did not have a seemkingly providential outcome? Knowing how our minds work and the way we perceive our world thru it prevents us from drawing hasty conclusions of a supernatural kind.
