ARE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY STATISTICS REALLY TRUSTWORTHY?

by TerryWalstrom 38 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Earnest

  In 1969 Michael H. Kater wrote a study on the Earnest Bible Students in Vierteljahrshefte fur Zeitgeschichte 17: pp.181-218, in which he estimates 10,000 Witnesses were imprisoned and four to five thousand lost their lives. Christine King published this as fact in her book The Nazi State and the New Religions, New York, 1982. The Watchtower of October 1, 1984 had a report on King's book which included these figures.

  When it refers to 10,000 who were imprisoned that includes all forms of imprisonment, not just concentration camps. So while absolute figures are difficult to determine, the figures in the 1974 Yearbook have been provided as verified. It is reasonable that the actual figures were much higher. In his book Between Resistance & Martyrdom, London, 2007, Detlef Garbe concludes it is likely accurate that 10,000 were imprisoned but that the number of deaths was closer to 1,200 than the four or five thousand estimated by Kater.

  Garbe adds (p.483) "In summary, the numerical data in the Watch Tower Society's 1974 report about the Bible Students Association in Germany is a remarkably reliable source".
  

  
  
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  EndofMysteries

  How could it be hard for them to be accurate? WT keeps records just like the nazi's did.  They probably know the name of each publisher who didn't get in their hours for each month during WW2 somewhere in their vaults. 
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  ScenicViewer

  Is this a contradiction?  Watchtower seems to always declare how loyal Witneses are/were when being persecuted.  Compare the Watchtower magazine quote to information from the Gestapo files.

  "Hitler failed to break them in prisons and concentration camps where he tortured 10,000 of them and the Communists are failing to do it in their frightful prisons and slave-labor camps." (The Watchtower, June 1, 1960, p. 327)
  

  Vs
  

  Historical Dictionary of Jehovah's Witnesses, page 73, by George D. Chryssides states: "Of the 25,000 Witnesses and Earnest Bible Students in Germany, 13,400 spent at least some time serving prison sentences. According to Gestapo files, more than half recanted."

  If more than half recanted, that's a pretty big chunk of Witneses and a victory for Hitler, while Watchtower insists that virtually all remained unbroken.
  
  

  Of course the Gestapo were probably interested in reporting high numbers to show their success too.  Maybe both Watchtower and the Gestapo were fudging the reports.

  Birds of a feather?
  
  

  
  
  

  
  
  
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  zeb

  Never once did the wts explain their failure to repatriate jw out of Nazi occupied lands even before the actual hostilities of WW2 took place. As the US was not in the war until the attack on Pearl harbor had happened (1941?) then the wts had plenty of time to make overtures through neutral countries like Sweden or Switzerland to get the jw ..OUT.

  They never did this. My guess; The heads didnt want to deal with governments (blind ignorance) or wanted martyrs in Nazi held Europe (blind arrogance). That any were detained, raided, or lost their lives is a testimony to the tragedy that should never have happened.
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  OrphanCrow

  ScenicViewer:

  Historical Dictionary of Jehovah's Witnesses, page 73, by George D. Chryssides states: "Of the 25,000 Witnesses and Earnest Bible Students in Germany, 13,400 spent at least some time serving prison sentences. According to Gestapo files, more than half recanted."

  If more than half recanted, that's a pretty big chunk of Witneses and a victory for Hitler, while Watchtower insists that virtually all remained unbroken.

  According to Kristen John-Stucke (Persecution and Resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses During the Nazi Regime, Hans Hesse 2001), about 50 percent of the BibleStudents/JWs who were sent to prison signed the letter to recant before they were released and only about 10 percent signed them once they reached the camps.

  John-Stucke points out that it was not advantageous to the BS/JW prisoners to sign the letters once they reached the camps because it was, in effect, potentially signing their own death warrants because the men who signed would be sent to the front to fight and rarely returned. Not signing the recant and staying in the camps was the safest and best way for the BS/JWs to survive the war.

  By the end of the war, it was not required that the BS/JWs sign a declaration - they were released on a handshake. This provision was put in place by Himmler for the many, many JW prisoners who were placed in privileged positions both within, and outside, of the camps in positions of trust for the Nazis.

  Himmler's proposal to release the BS/Jws on just a handshake:

  "In all these cases where prisoners are partially free and have been assigned to such work, we want to avoid written records and make such agreements with just a handshake".
  

  
  
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  TerryWalstrom

  Orphan Crow: Himmler's proposal to release the BS/Jws on just a handshake:

  "In all these cases where prisoners are partially free and have been assigned to such work, we want to avoid written records and make such agreements with just a handshake".

  _____________________

  
  

  Which source is that O.C.? Kristen John-Stucke ?
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  OrphanCrow

  Which source is that O.C.? Kristen John-Stucke ?

  Sorry, Terry - I missed that one.

  From Between Resistance and Martyrdom: Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich by Detlef Garbe. Page 449.
  

  https://books.google.ca/books?id=cjRiEV0CSQUC&pg=PA449#v=onepage&q&f=false
  

  And I missed part of the quote - it should read "...avoid written records or signatures..."
  
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  Vidiot

  TerryWalstrom - "Are Watchtower Society statistics really trustworthy?"

  Pshhh.

  These days, you'll get more reliable statistics from Faux News...
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  Vidiot

  Oops, double post.

  Please delete this one.
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  Driving Force

  • The Watchtower, December 15, 1950, p. 500: "Already during the Hitler regime about 1,000 Jehovah's witnesses were executed as traitors, because they not only refused to serve in the war but openly opposed Hitler's authority. Another 1,000 of Jehovah's witnesses died in prisons and concentration camps.

  
  

  This is a very interesting statement. This clearly shows that JWs were not neutral at the time. The GB wants us to believe that the witnesses suffered because of their christian neutrality, when clearly the watchtower admits they were not neutral. They were not neutral because the organization coerced them into protesting against the regime. Only speculation, but if JWs were really neutral at the time I am sure that many would not have been incarcerated, and certainly fewer would have been killed. The Watchtower has the blood of these men and women on their hands, and they know it.