Are JW's embarrassed by faith in Jesus?

by eyeslice 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  heathen

  I think you all have it wrong on this one . The WTBTS time and again have insisted that jesus is ruling the earth invisibly, remember the 1914 doctrine ? Who kicked satan out of heaven ? who judged the churches of christiandom ? who's main focus is on preaching the good news of the messianic kingdom ? True they do want to exalt jehovah over all things but so did jesus . I think the only defaming of jesus that has been done is to refuse to acknowlege him as God and not merely a god.
• 

  eyeslice

  Heathen,

  I don't think we have got it wrong. Perhaps you were never as deep in as many of us have been.

  Yes, the Society claims that Jesus has been installed as heavenly king since 1914. But at the same time they use expressions like "Jehovah will soon destroy the wicked at Armageddon", "in God's paradise earth", "God is now judging the nations", "God will raise the dead back to life on earth", etc. I can't have picked this up wrong - I attended the meeting for nearly 50 years!

  I am making the point that in the NT, Christ does everything! He forgives sins, it is he who raises the dead, he makes a covenant for a kingdom with his followers. Everything is done through Christ to the glory of God.

  I think that Farkel has got it right in many respects; the JW religion is an OT religion with Jesus in it.

  The Society would argue this is because there is a common theme running through the Bible, culminating in the arrival of Christ on earth. But, you just have to look at the books published in recent years; on Daniel, Isaiah, etc. To my knowledge, other than books about Revelation which are in the same prophetic vein as the Isaiah books, the Society has only ever published one commentary on the books of the NT - The Commentary on James. And that was written by a person who was later disfellowshipped for apostacy. Personally, I think that in itself is something to think about.

  eyeslice
• 

  ellderwho

  Yes, the Society claims that Jesus has been installed as heavenly king since 1914.

  Eyeslice, with the above stated and the fact that youve attended for 50 years, did it ever occur that Jesus installed as king in 1914 is in direct conflict with Ephesians 1:20-22?

  20 with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and everyname named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come 22 He also subjected all things inder his feet, and made him head over all things to the congregation. NWT

  I took my elder study here, his response " well thats very interesting"

  E
• 

  eyeslice

  elderwho

  The Society's spin on this is always going to be that Jesus was installed as King of the congregation but 1914 saw him installed as heavenly King over the nation, i.e. the rule of the Gentile nations had given way to the rule of Christ.

  Take your point though. Many even basic teachings of the Society are misunderstood by the R & F. See my new thread on basic doctrines http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/67908/1.ashx
• 

  heathen

  eyeslice--- The WTBTS has printed publications about the new testament other than the commentary on james . Revelation grand climax and various other books on revelation for one , the greatest man who ever lived book is entirely about jesus and the 4 gospel accounts . of which I have read them even tho not a jw . I also read the Daniel and Isaiah books . They both have prophesies about the messiah and the end of the world . If you were raised a dub or were actually in the org. I suppose you have more knowlege than me on what goes on with the church but the publications clearly focus in on jesus alot more than what you are accusing them of . I've noticed that it is real easy to confuse jesus role when he was in ancient jerusalem and executed and what happened after he was raised from the dead .
• 

  LittleToe

  Heathen:
  The publications that you identified don't give much to go on.
  At the Hall the conversation centers almost entirely on Jehovah.
  Some of the books appear to have a more "Jesus" focus, but the spin in the meetings converts this into something else.

  As one who was raised (3rd Gen.) as a JW, I can honestly say that I wasn't unique in my views about Jesus.
  Although he was supposed to have "paid the ransom" by forsaking being an angel and becoming a perfect man (as allegedly the angels did in Noah's day), to make an exact price for Adam's loss (notwithstanding centuries of additional "sin"), I didn't see him as anything more than a temporary ruler for 1000 years.

  I didn't see him as having any part in creation, other than as a spectator.
  I couldn't think too deeply about "when" he took rulership, because on one hand he was supposed to be leading the congregation, but on an other he was supposed to be ruling invisibly, and on yet another, his rule was supposed to be getting extended to the earth. So were we supposed to be in the 1000 years, or was it due to begin after "Armaggedon"?

  Hence most of us waited on Jehovah (not Jesus, nor enlightenment from the Holy Spirit), to reveal things slowly, at the appropriate time, to the "anointed", meaning the Governing Body, meaning Fred Franz (in my day).

  The bottom line is that proportionally Jesus was barely mentioned, other than as a bargaining token and puppet king.

  On another note - are you going to the Dallas Fest?
• 

  heathen

  Little Toe --- I think it's more like most of you were waiting on jehovahs chariot like organization to provide the food at the proper time . I think the wheels fell off a long time ago but still think there is enough information available for people to discern for themselves . The sad part is they insist that it's their way or the highway and it's almost impossible to have an intelligent conversation with them . You are quickly demonized and considered bad association if you have doubts in the WTBTS . I think Farkel has said some things that made sense to me as far as the WTBTS wanting the worship for itself . I just don't like to see false accusations because there is enough evidence for some real criticism. Any way court is still in session , I am still taking testimony .........lol

  Will I go to the A-fest in Dallas remains to be confirmed . My life right now is so F'd we will have to wait and see.
• 

  got my forty homey?

  I was only embarressed to hold the magazines in the plastic holder things in the subway station, where thousands of New Yorkers thought I was a dweebie idiot!
• 

  Scully

  Little Toe writes:

  The bottom line is that proportionally Jesus was barely mentioned, other than as a bargaining token and puppet king.

  That is soooooo true, and something I hadn't really considered before. I always kind of thought that the WTS's secret wish was that Jesus never uttered the words "No one comes to the Father except through me." It seems that for the past several decades, the WTS has been trying to usurp Jesus' rightful place of honour in the Christian faith and cunningly put itself in the role of being the only means by which people can have salvation.

  Love, Scully
• 

  LittleToe

  Heathen:
  Do you question what your mother says?

  I would argue that it's difficult to question your parents integrity, far less their sense.
  In this case, the borg demands that attitude from it's followers, which I imagine is more difficult to shake if you were raised in it.

  I'd agree that Farkel is on the money, too.

  As for life in general, I hope it starts to work out, soon.