The Effeminate JW man (page 4)

FlyingHighNow

So, if I would kick some ass, drink my whiskey straight, and hit on the chicks, then I'm a real man? You guys crack me up....I will stipulate that the WTS does noting to support men OR women to experience their wholeness as men or women......but just because I don't pick fights, I don't pay women to dance on the pole, and I don't drink the hard stuff unless it's in a margarita, has nothing to do with my masculinity or lack therof. Phantom Stranger

Phantom, I like the way you express yourself on this subject. I can see from reading the message boards for exJWs that many exbrothers are still very confused about what it means to be masculine. I think part of it is society, the worldly one, and its ridiculous stereotypes of what is masculine. I think the other part of it is the WTBTS idea that men are superior to women and have a god given right to lord it over them and treat them as sexual objects.

When I first came out of the org., I thought the exbrothers would all be enlightened and treat each other and women with respect and dignity. Then I read the boards and quickly realized that some of the exbrothers have pretty warped ideas of what it means to be a man and how to view and treat women. Now, I don't fret about it anymore. I realize they are still growing and evolving and adjusting their views, concepts and feelings about themselves, other men and women.

I can see that you have come along very nicely and think for yourself where your masculinity is concerned. You know you don't have to open beer bottles with your teeth,crush beer cans on your forehead, drive 110 miles an hour, lust over strippers or playboy centerfolds, talk big and tough and keep a woman in her place to be a man. It's very encouraging to read your views.

Heather

SixofNine

You know you don't have to open beer bottles with your teeth,crush beer cans on your forehead, drive 110 miles an hour, lust over strippers or playboy centerfolds, talk big and tough and keep a woman in her place to be a man.

But if you can do all that in one sitting, we do issue medals....

Six~ el presidente and member of the hare club for men

logansrun

One of the congregations I was at had a lot of brothers in the construction field attending. Effeminate? Hell no.

Gotta love armchair sociology.

B.

Phantom Stranger

I didn't just grow up around construction workers... those were my first jobs. I was a California wood butcher - a framing carpenter's helper, summers and some weekends. I've worked as a carpenter, an electrical apprentice, a ditch-digging laborer. I grew up in schools where fighting was common, usually on racial lines, and I've won and lost fights. What does all that prove? Nothing.

I don't do physical work today - but I could. I'm 38, 6 foot, 220, and I play indoor soccer (usually keeper - lotsa collisions) and I occasionally work on cars and I use power tools and all that. I break up fights in my presence and I keep public domestic disputes from becoming assaults on females in my presence and I don't let kids get beat in public in front of me. But the moments when I act tough - when I get pissed on the soccer field or the basketball court - or even here - are not victories for my masculinity - they are failures of it.

Acting tough is trying to convince yourself of something of which you yourself aren't sure. The dictionary says that masculine is either defined by your genitalia, or by being "strong" and "robust". It's possible to be stong and robust without being a loudmouth blowhard who acts tough - it may be harder, but it's possible.

In fact, when someone is exhibiting machismo (see the definition below) they are actually being focused only on themselves. When one demonstrates strength, they can be doing so for themselves or on behalf or for the sake of someone or something else - some person they care for, some cause they are committed to. But when we try to be tough, we are really trying to convince ourselves of something we doubt. Once we as men believe that we are strong enough and capable enough - that we are enough - once we decide to stop worrying that someone is going to come look at out tickets and order us off the train car that all the other guys get to ride - that's when we start being masculine, and embracing our wholeness as men. The rest is posturing - you can see that at the zoo.

ma·chis·mo
n.

A strong or exaggerated sense of masculinity stressing attributes such as physical courage, virility, domination of women, and aggressiveness.
An exaggerated sense of strength or toughness.

Doubtfully Yours

Maverick,

The Bethel homes, and branches throughout the US are filled with the affeminate type of brothers.

Some act so visibly gay, it's a wonder they hold the positions they do! Like Seinfeld said: "Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

DY

IronGland

And being a little guy I took no crap from anyone and would get right in a young mans face if he pushed me.

Napoleon, I never noticed that.

Maverick

Seems I hit a nerve...like THAT never happens!!!!

Effeminate is not the same a homosexual. Being gay does not make a man less of a man.

My point was the whimpy manner of a number of Witless men. I saw this and wondered if other saw this too!

How do I judge what a man does? Can he make his own way in the world? Can he support those he has promished to support? Does he keep his word and back up his friends? Does he take his lumps and learn from his mistakes? Does he even admit to making mistakes? Would I want him watching my back, and would he want me watching his? Is he kind to children, respectful to the older ones, and gentle to the ladies? Is he competent? Have I made my point? Maverick

shamus

I am a homosexual, and am not effeminate at all; not that there's anyting wrong with that, LOL!

Years ago I knew a brother who was extremely effeminite. It was pretty obvious that he was curious to say the least.

When my racist father met him, (he's figian), he nearly fainted. When I told this "brother" that my dad was racist, he said that I should have told him before he met him; he would have given him a warm embrace, and scared the shit out of him, LOL!

BLISSISIGNORANCE

I have been in a few congregations in the city I live in and I have to say there have been effeminate brothers in each.

It always amazed me how if any 'worldly' male behaved like those brothers the dubs would have slagged off about them and how corrupt the world is and how satan has them in his control. But because it was in the borg the topic was avoided yet it was obvious things were being thought. Just the giggles and looks dubs gave eachother at meetings when those brothers answered up or did microphones, talks etc. It would sometimes be hinted in conversation but never directly expressed.

One brother who did parts at the conventions was married yet he acted sooooooo camp on the platform that even invited people would squirm in their seats. His uncle was a big shot DO so no one ever dared to speak about it.

Another brother who was very effeminate had people totally confused because he walked and talked camp but he and his sister would hug, rub, squeeze, kiss, whisper, giggle, touch, stare etc all through the meetings. Now that was something the dubs would mention in conversation, saying but never quite saying IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then there is a young brother who would get attacked at school for being so unlikeable. His mother would tell the sisters that her son was attacked by girls at school because they wanted to have sex with him but he wouldn't! OMG.............you should see this guy. He was being picked on because he acted so righteouss and smart while acting effeminate and being unfortunateley very unattractive. His mother is so hung up about sex that it seems like her influence has had a strange effect on him. And because his parents are so disliked in the congregation some dubs will not hold back commenting on him being effeminate.

Cheers, Bliss

Sirona

In one congregation I met a "brother" who actually said to me that he was a woman trapped in a mans body. This person was not just effeminate, he was excessively wierd and nervous. He would stare at me, which I didn't understand at first until I realised he was looking at my female body in jealousy. It was awful - I felt really sorry for him, because the elders had basically forbidden him from dressing as a woman - and he wasn't going to marry a woman, so he was stuck.

IMO a real man is respectful to everyone, but strong. Able to make hard decisions and see it through (of course all this applies to women....)

Sirona

The Effeminate JW man

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