To the people of Spain

by Amazing1914 117 Replies latest social current

  • bisous
    bisous
    I am proud to be a Christian!

    I am proud to be an American!

    I am proud to be a conservative!

    I am proud of our country?s past, present, and future!

    I am proud of the standards our country once held dear, and I think they will be restored!

    I am in the wrong place!

    BorgFree (if you're still here and reading):

    shame on you for your disgust at those who disagree, especially those who are US citizens. Our country is founded the the absolute RIGHT to question, disagree, debate with freedom and pride. Your views make you no more patriotic than those of us who do not share them. The country you profess to love so much attempts to provide the safe haven for all of us to have whatever view we choose and still be considered Americans.

    I am proud to be non-Christian.

    I am also proud to be an American, I am however ashamed of many of my government's decisions.

    I am proud to be an Independent, albeit admittedly with a Liberal bent.

    I am realistic and open regarding my country's past, present and future. I could write pages of historical facts that the US should be ashamed of, and an equally weighty tome on those of which we should be proud.

    I am delighted that our country has the diversity and open-mindedness to reexamine our standards as enlightenment expands and society's mores evolve.

    I am in the right place for me.

    You should feel free to pursue that destination for yourself as well. I think you will find it here, if you manage your frustration and continue to participate in the dialogue.

    Smiley Of Liberty


  • roybatty
    roybatty
    Terrorism (from the IRA against the UK) was never a big issue for the Americans - why have things changed ?

    Actually, that something that's always bugged the hell out of me. The Irish influence here in America, esp. here in Chicago, is HUGE. I've always wondered home much of the money that goes through the hands of Irish-Americans end up funding IRA terrorist attacks in the UK.

  • roybatty
    roybatty
    America doesn't give a shit about terrorism when it's backing it. It has only taken a dislike to some of it since it's got a bloody nose.

    Oklahoma was your wake up call, Sept 11 was your pigeons coming home to roost. Welcome to the world.

    I agree, partially.

    Having parents who came to America from Europe, I've spent many summer vacations visiting relatives in Holland and Germany and visiting friends in France and England. I recall one trip back in the mid '80's, landing at Heathrow Airport, and seeing for the first time soldiers and tanks stationed there. I was around 16 at the time but I remember thinking that people in America have no idea the shi* many Europeans have to put with but that one day it would also happen in the States.

    One thing that most Americans don't truly realize is that most Europeans really don't like Americans. Oh, I know people will say that I'm painting with a broad brush but I'm just giving my observation. Besides, defining "dislike" is differnt from one person to another. The last time I was in Europe was 3 years ago and I have to say that the "dislike" of Americans isn't as strong as it was back in the '80s but it's still there. That's why when I read your comments it doesn't bother or upset me. It's the same "anti-American" stuff I've been hearing from my cousins, aunts and uncles for the past 25 years. So when I hear people like John Kerry stating that American forces need to be under the command of the UN or other Americans saying that we shouldn't go it alone, hell with that. Try and get the support of our allies but if our cause is just and it's the right thing for America to do, then do it, even if it means going it alone.

    It's a certainty that there will be another 9/11 here in the States. Just how bad it will be I don't know. Terrorists are just like criminals. All that works with them is punishment. This is the message they need to learn (and they are starting to). You kill our citizens, we'll bomb the hell out of the countries that support you. But even this is too late. The next 9/11 may kill even more people. It's too late to go after them after they've attacked. If countries like Syria, Indonesia, Iraq, Ireland and others can't stop these terrorist cells, they the US Army will have to.

  • Love_Truth
    Love_Truth

    It has been said already, yet I'll say it again:

    One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter or invader, etc.

    What makes the radical Islam version of Terrorism so different?

    It's goal- not political change, but death to all unbelievers.

    That is what makes this version of terrorism different- there is no way, short of fundamental pschological change of Islamist fundamentalism, to remedy the threat in the long term.

    In the short-term, war (in all forms) will be waged against aiders and abettors of this form of terrrorism, which in the broad sense includes many Middle Eastern and even some non-ME countries.

    In the long term, however, radical, fundamentalist Islam's teachings must be spoken out against in a wholesale manner by mainstream Islam, and effectively halted. That is the core cause of the problem.

    So the comparison between the IRA and Islamist Terrorists is fundamentally wrong.

    Love_Truth- my two cents.

  • donkey
    donkey
    Tell me, do you think terrorism exists in a vaccum and someone just "decides" one day to become a terrorism? Sure, there may be **odd people** like that but on the whole the conflict is about something.

    I don't think it's possible to resolve the conflicts until people look at the reasons for it. Otherwise, we just get a spiralling escallation of violence.

    On the one hand I agree with this point too - terrorism is about something. The question no one bothers to find out is "what?"
    On the other hand I don't care what Bin Laden is about. I want him dead. As far as Bin Laden goes for me it is shoot first and ask questions later because of his crimes against civilians.

    Obviously in the short term the issue comes down to: do we negotiate with terrorists?

    Let's take a well respected man - probably one of the greatest statesmen of the last century: Nelson Mandela. Mandela was by definition a terrorist. I see the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter as follows: terrorists focus on civilian and soft targets whereas freedom fighters resist the military of their oppressors. Often when freedom fighters start losing they might change tactics and resort to terrorism. Nonetheless Mandela was fighting against oppressors in his own country and used terrorism as a mechanism for doing so. Whether or not we agree with his cause (i happen to agree with it) his tactics were questionable - civilian targets.

    Now others might point to the example of Mandela and claim terrorism worked. It never. The changes came about because of 2 reasons: Foreign pressure and a reasonable person came into office in the country and was able to change the screwed up policies of the Apartheid past.

    The difference for me is that Bin Laden and his cronies terrorism is not to free themselves from the US - they are not living under the US. I have yet to fully understand what the issues are - but I am willing to be educated. Regardless, for me, Bin Laden's actions have earned him a medal made of solid lead.

  • L_A_Big_Dawg
    L_A_Big_Dawg

    This past week I was listening to the radio when a commentator opined about the terrorist bombing in Spain, the change in the Spanish government, and the resulting "reward" by the Islamic terrorist. He wondered out loud if Europeans that actually had backbone and guts are the ones that immigrated to the United States. He stated that all one has to do is look at the the last one hundred years of European history, and see a continuing pattern of cowtowing to thugs and assassins.

    As far as the the United States' response to terrorism we have two clear examples of what to do and what not to do. When the WTC was first attacked by Islamic terrorists, the then-sitting adminstration responded by going after these Islamic terrorists through legal ends. DId this stop any further attacks on Americans and world citizens? No. The response after September 11th by another adminstration (and different political party) was the beginning for a measured and appropriate response. Islamic terrorists declared war on the United States on September 11, and in the words of the current Presicent, "War is what they got.

    After reflecting on what is written in the history books, and the way that the Spanish (people and government) I have to agree with him. What many of you that oppose what the United States is doing fail to realize is that this war is not just against the United States, but it is a war against Western culture. It is a war that the west cannot afford to lose. Many of you on this board harrang the Borg for it's overly controlling nature. As well you should. However, if Islam wins this war you will be under a religious and judicial system that is infinitely more repressive than anything you experienced in the Borg, ie., physical death for apostasy against Muhhamed vs. shunning.

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome
    What makes the radical Islam version of Terrorism so different?

    It's goal- not political change, but death to all unbelievers.

    love_truth,

    can you give examples of islamic terrorist acts which weren't politically motivated, but were carried out only to kill unbelievers?

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    The murder of Daniel Pearl.

    CZAR

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    the kidnapping and murder of daniel pearl is an act of terrorism?

  • core
    core

    pork chop following from the UN site shows that no nations hands are clean from this dreadful trade (in weapons):

    Weapons of Mass Destruction

    Conventional Terrorist Weapons

    Terrorists are, on the whole, conventional in their use of weapons; bombs and guns are their favourites. Among the former, car- and truck-bombs have become very powerful weapons, especially in suicide attacks. Terrorists use both explosive bombings and incendiary bombings (e.g. Molotov cocktails). They also make use of letter and parcel bombs. Terrorists use guns, pistols, revolvers, rifles and (semi-) automatic weapons in assassinations, sniping, armed attacks and massacres. Grenades - from hand grenades to rocket-propelled - are also part of the terrorist arsenal. The use of missiles is rare but a few groups are known to be in possession of surface-to-air shoulder-fired missiles that can bring down helicopters, fighter aircrafts and civilian airliners.

    Guns and Other Firearms

    General

    Terrorists use both manufactured and improvised firearms. The term manufactured designates those arms made professionally by arms factories, while improvised describes those manufactured by non-professional arms manufacturers, or by illicit workshops. Firearms are sometimes referred to as "bored weapons", indicating the barrel from which the bullet or projectile is fired, or the tube from which the projectile is launched.

    Manufactured Firearms

    These are divided into sub-categories:

    • Small Arms: most firearms under the level of medium machine guns, or as a loose rule, belt-fed machine guns. They include pistols (which are now all semi-automatic or self re-loading), revolvers, rifles, submachine guns and light machine guns. Small arms also include so-called assault rifles, which are in fact either submachine gun mechanisms or mechanisms providing the same firing facilities in the body, stock or woodwork of a short rifle or carbine. The hand-guns (pistols and revolvers) are sometimes known as sidearms.

    • Medium-size Infantry Weapons: medium-sized machine guns (many of which are belt-fed), smaller sized mortars, rocket- propelled grenades and smaller calibre wire-guided missiles.

    • Heavy Infantry Weapons: heavy calibre machine guns, heavy calibre mortars, larger calibre wire-guided missiles, shoulder-held anti-tank missile launchers and some rockets below the category of artillery.

    Improvised Firearms

    These weapons include any of the above which are made outside professional and legal arms factories. Not all types of the above weapons have been privately manufactured or improvised, but weapons such as the AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifle or the M-60 heavy machine gun are within the manufacturing capabilities of local arms artificers on the north-west frontier of the Indian subcontinent. Primitive mortars and rocket launchers are also sometimes manufactured by different entities.

    Weapons Manufacturers and Weapon Names

    Small Arms

    Most small arms are designed for military use, but hunting weapons and occasionally full-bore target-shooting weapons are also utilized.

    Common calibres (reflecting procurement and re-supply trends).

    5.56 mm
    7.65 mm
    7.62mm
    9 mm

    Manufacturers / Weapons

    Considerable quantities of commercial shotguns are diverted into illicit black markets due to the large number of commercial manufacturers. The most common weapon manufacturers are:

    Berretta.
    FN (Fabrique Nationale).
    Walther.
    Browning.
    Colt.
    Glock.
    Carl Gustav.
    Uzi.
    Webley.
    Webley & Scott.
    Enfield.
    Lee-Enfield.
    Sterling.
    Sterling-Enfield (Sten).
    Bryno-Enfield (Bren).
    Ruger.
    Mauser.
    A. Kalashnikov (AK).
    Thompson.
    Smith & Wesson.
    Bryno.
    Johnson.
    Springfield.
    Arusaka.
    Lebel.
    Garand.
    Vickers
    Tokarev.
    Armalite.
    British Small Arms Co.
    SIG.
    PPSH.
    Luger.
    Hawkins.
    Riegel.
    Bofors.
    Parker-Hale.

    Examples:

    1) AK-47 (Soviet rifle)

    The AK-47 was accepted as the standard rifle for the Soviet Army in 1949 and retained that status until it was succeeded by the AKM. During the Cold War, the USSR supplied arms to anti-Western insurgent terrorists. The AK-47 became a symbol of left-wing revolution; between 30-50 million copies and variations of the AK-47 have been produced globally, making it the most widely used rifle in the world.

    2) RPG-7 (Rocket Propelled Grenade)

    The RPG-7 was issued by forces of the former USSR, the Chinese military and North Korea, and was used in many countries receiving weapons and training from the Warsaw Pact members. The RPG-7 proved to be a very simple and functional weapon, effective against fixed emplacements and playing an anti-vehicle/anti-armour role. Its effective range is thought to be approximately 500 metres when used against a fixed target, and about 300 metres when fired at a moving target. The RPG-7 is being used extensively by terrorist organizations in the Middle East and Latin America and is thought to be in the inventory of many insurgent groups. The RPG-7 is available in illegal international arms markets, particularly in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

    3) Stinger (FIM92A)

    The US-made Stinger is a man-portable infrared guided shoulder-launched Surface-To-Air Missile (SAM). It proved to be highly effective in the hands of Afghan Mujahedeen guerrillas during their insurgency against the Soviet intervention. Its maximum effective range is approximately 5,500 metres. Its maximum effective altitude is approximately 5250metres. It has been used to target high-speed jets, helicopters and commercial airliners.

    4) SA-7 ("Grail")

    Sold by the thousands after the demise of the former Soviet Union, the SA-7 "Grail" uses an optical sight and tracking device with an infrared seeking mechanism to strike flying targets with great force. Its maximum effective range is approximately 6,125 metres and maximum effective altitude is approximately 4300 metres. It is known to be in the stockpiles of several terrorist and guerrilla groups.

    Bombs and Other Explosives

    General

    Few military bombs (other than those dropped by aircraft) are currently manufactured on the scale and with the diversity encountered in the Second World War. The exception to this generalization is the mine - both the anti-personnel and anti-tank mine. Mines can be adapted without too much difficulty with average combat-engineer experience. Some 300 different types of mines are buried under the soil, killing tens of thousands every year.

    Most bombs assembled by terrorists are improvised. The raw material required for explosives is stolen or misappropriated from military or commercial blasting supplies, or made from fertilizer and other readily available household ingredients. Such assembled bombs are known as Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs).

    Components

    IEDs have a main charge, which is attached to a fuse. The fuse is attached to a trigger. In some types of IEDs, these three components are almost integrated into a single whole. The trigger is the part which activates the fuse. The fuse ignites the charge, causing the explosion. The explosion consists of a violent pulse of blast and shock waves. The effects of the IED are sometimes worsened by the addition of material, such as scrap iron or ball-bearings. Sometimes the trigger is not the only component that activates the fuse; there is also an anti-handling device that triggers the fuse when the IED is handled or moved. The purpose of most IEDs is to kill or maim. Some IEDs, known as incendiaries, are intended to cause damage or destruction by fire. The format of the charge in some IEDs (some of which have no casing to contain the components of the IED) can be shaped or directional, rendering a measure of control over the explosion. Anti-personnel mines and other types of mines have been adapted by terrorists to suit their purposes.

    Favoured Explosive Charges

    • Semtex.
    • RDX (Cyclonite or Hexogen, depending on form).
    • PETN (Raw form of RDX).
    • C4 (Plastic Explosive).
    • TNT (Tri Nitro Toluene)
    • Common Fertilizer, used as a base.
    • Dynamite.

    Methods / Triggers used to detonate an IED

    • Pressure activated (physical).
    • Pressure activated (water or atmospheric).
    • Electronic Signal (Remote Control).
    • Electronic Signal (Radio Frequency).
    • Electronic Pulse (Detonator box)
    • Photo Electric Cell ("when dawn breaks").
    • Motion Detector.
    • Heat Detector.
    • Radiation Trigger.
    • Circuit Connection (Anti-handling Device).
    • Time Switch (Electronic).
    • Time Switch (Acid activated).
    • Fuse Wire.

    Examples of IEDs

    • Pipe Bomb
      This is the most common type of terrorist bomb and usually consists of low-velocity explosives inside a tightly capped piece of pipe. Pipe bombs are very easily made using gunpowder, iron, steel, aluminium or copper pipes. They are sometimes wrapped with nails to cause even more harm.

    • Molotov Cocktail
      This improvised weapon - first used by the Russian resistance against German tanks in the Second World War - is used by terrorists world-wide. Molotov cocktails are extremely simple to make and can cause considerable damage. They are usually made from materials like gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, ethyl or methyl alcohol, lighter fluid and turpentine, all of which are easily obtained. The explosive material is placed in a glass bottle, which breaks upon impact. A piece of cotton serves as a fuse, which is ignited before the bottle is thrown at the target.

    • Fertilizer Truck Bomb
      Fertilizer truck bombs consist of ammonium nitrate. Hundreds of kilograms may be required to cause major damage. The Irish Republican Army, Tamil Tigers and some Middle Eastern groups use the ammonium nitrate bomb.

    • Barometric Bomb
      One of the more advanced weapons in the terrorist's arsenal. The detonator of the bomb is linked to an altitude meter, causing the explosion to occur in mid-air.

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