by Amazing1914 117 Replies latest social current
So give us a valid reason for the Iraq war, Pork Chop.
And don't even act as if a cynical dude like yourself doubts that people (especially people like GW Bush) make decisions, even decisions like going to war, with money on their mind and their buddy's voices in their ear.
These people have no honor, no ethics, and no grace.
Excuse me? People who want peace, see war as a last resort, demand honesty if and when there is to be a war... people who are the military's best friend...many of whom actually served their country, faced and took bullets.... these people have no honor, no ethics, and no grace?
No, I think it is the chickenhawks that have no honor, no ethics, and no grace. The effing worthless piece of sh*t armchair generals who would send other people's sons and daughters off to die for a cause that they can't even pin down an honest definition of. Along with them in the lack of honor, ethics and grace department, are their cheerleaders, people who do have their own pet definition of the war's righteous cause (like: Saddam was one evil dude, dude) but don't give a damn about other people dying for their "pet" cause and if they're honest (and they are never honest), they have some vague idea, born in mortal fear, that lashing out with military might somewhere, anywhere, will somehow, someway, stifle terrorism. As if.
Succintly
"Saddam Hussein's history, capability and intent, and the serious and long-term threat he posed to a vital region, to America's allies and to our national security.
First, Saddam had used WMD ? against Iran in the mid-1980s, and he later used them against his own people, killing more than 5,000 civilians in the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja in March 1988.
Second, Saddam had possessed WMD, as he acknowledged to the United Nations after his ouster from Kuwait in February 1991. Moreover, until at least the early 1990s, U.S., British, French, German and Israeli intelligence agencies had underestimated his biological and nuclear programs. And all of them ? along with the Clinton administration, the U.N. and both supporters and opponents of last year's war ? assumed Saddam still had substantial quantities of WMD.
Third, Saddam had maintained the capability to produce WMD. In 1991, the U.N. Special Commission (UNSCOM) discovered that Iraq possessed a workable design for an implosion-type nuclear weapon though not yet the necessary fissile material. If the material could be obtained elsewhere ? from Russia, Pakistan or North Korea ? Iraq was believed able to produce a bomb within a year. Iraq retained facilities as well as teams of scientists and engineers. And during the past year, the Iraq Survey Group, the U.S. inspection team, discovered a program to develop long-range missiles. The overall evidence led the team's head, David Kay, to say "Iraq was in clear violation" of a U.N. resolution demanding full accounting of WMD.
Fourth, Saddam had the intent. After the withdrawal of U.N. inspectors in 1998 and the erosion of international support for sanctions, Saddam counted on being free sooner or later to fully resume oil sales and rebuild his weapons. He continued to menace his neighbors, brutalize his people and cooperate with terrorist groups. He told Arab journalists in late 2002 that he was playing for time in the face of renewed American and coalition pressure.
In the aftermath of 9/11 and as murderously evident in Madrid, it is far better to act decisively against the most lethal threats rather than hope to deter them or to retaliate following a mass casualty attack. As British Prime Minister Tony Blair has said, 9/11 altered the balance of risk. Ultimately, the nature of Saddam's regime, his record of aggression and his capability and intent posed a major strategic threat. Despite the bitter and often partisan controversies that have erupted about the path to war, the case for the use of force remains compelling."
You want to hope the bad guys go away Six? Not me. Appeasement never works.
Ultimately, the nature of Saddam's regime, his record of aggression and his capability and intent posed a major strategic threat.
lol. If you'd said that two years ago, at least you could be forgivin, after all, some pretty heavy hitters were playing fast and loose with the data. Now you're just a person who will lie in public and not feel any shame. Have you thought about becoming a politician or a Jehovah's Witness?
Do you watch the news? Saddam's regime did not "pose a major strategic threat". Saddam's regime, by the time of this war, at it's Dr. Evil best, posed a minor but very contained threat.
At least 500+ soldiers dead, thousands upon thousands of casualties (who knows how many of which are amputees and horribly maimed), and 100+ billion dollars did buy us that information.
My, my, the left loves living in a state of denial. Black will always be white, truth will always be lie, as long as the agenda moves forward.
Hey, you just came in here and lied, and I called you on it. So don't think you'll lecture me or the left on honesty.
For those who have comprehension difficulties or simply chose to twist my words, I suggest that you go back and re-read the first half-dozen posts on this topic.
I was replying to the suggestion that the USA should seize control of the middle east. This is exactly the sort of thinking that IMO has got us in the mess we are now and the kind of action that ultimately leads to Sep 11 type events.
As the Spanish foreign minister said in response to comments that they were appeasing terrorists - they are not appeasing them, they just recognise that the current policy is failing miserably and will not work. A different approach is needed.
Now, I personally think that the comments made about the Spanish being weak, appeasing terrorists etc... are highly insensitive and insulting and in extremely bad taste.
It's OK for people to sit at home and decide we should launch attacks, do this, do that ... and make other countries into battle fields. They obviously feel insecure and think this is the only option but have some empathy for the people living there for christs sake. Think of the kids who have lost their parents or had their limbs blown off.
If you think going to war makes you more secure against terrorist then you need to think again. War only works against countries and helps to channel money to Bush's pals.
This terrible event in your land saddens us all ... I am sorry that those responsible are likely doing this to get revenge upon your nation for its support of the United Kingdom, the USA and other coalition of nations devoted to the war on terror ... you and your loved ones killed so tragically are in our thoughts and prayers ... your natioin is honored among us all ... and may you heal from this as quickly as possible
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this terrible event moved me to tears as i watched the news broadcasts. what hope is there to offer these people, the victims and their families? will the war on terror really be won?
Hi Pete," ... will the war on terror really be won?"I think in time it will, because the energy it takes to remain angry, to keep up the hate ... it can't last forever ... and the style of suicide-homicide bombings will deplete the number of these haters ... whereas good people can take suffering and out last them in the long term ... but I think that it will be a very long time, many years ... perhaps decades before we see an end to this ... unless several nations get together and simply seize conrol of the mid-east ... which may be necessary
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Amazing I guess one has to keep on believing. But wherever we pit our faith one must always have a nagging doubt as to will it ever be justified/satisfied
For those who have comprehension difficulties or simply chose to twist my words, I suggest that you go back and re-read the first half-dozen posts on this topic..K, re-reading the 4 posts before yours...lessseee sympathy for the Spanish people (fake no doubt...after all it IS an American..selfish oil sucking bastard)...ok he did attribute the bombing to Al Qeada but then I believe that is the general conseus at this point, yes?....more sympathy for Spain not sure if peter is an American though so his might or might not be real....another comment by Amazing....ah ah I think I see what set you off....
unless several nations get together and simply seize conrol of the mid-east
That it?
I was replying to the suggestion that the USA should seize control of the middle east.
I see a comment that SEVERAL NATIONS (probably yours is one of them cause well you know YOUR government is right there with us in this mess) should seize control...we will overlook your apparent lack of reading comperhension on that one....one American makes a comment and you assume we all subscribe to it?...oh and oddly enough right after that comment is peters (of course he probably isn't an American)....
But wherever we pit our faith one must always have a nagging doubt as to will it ever be justified/satisfied
Will it ever be justified or satisfied.....something regardless of what YOU think I also wonder that.
Now, I personally think that the comments made about the Spanish being weak, appeasing terrorists etc... are highly insensitive and insulting and in extremely bad taste.
So do I....but I don't see them being portrayed that way in those 4 posts, do you? Did I comment on the Spanish being weak or appeasing terrorists???
It's OK for people to sit at home and decide we should launch attacks, do this, do that ... and make other countries into battle fields. They obviously feel insecure and think this is the only option but have some empathy for the people living there for christs sake. Think of the kids who have lost their parents or had their limbs blown off.
WTF where did that come from??? This thread??? Those 4 posts??? You appear to be projecting a lot of anger here. I do have empathy, whether you want to believe it or not....and I would like this to be over as much as you would. BUT I don't feel the need to wish what happened in Spain on another country for it to happen like you apparently do. I will repeat AGAIN....your post was in poor taste considering the context of this thread and the circumstances of the bombing in Spain. Amazing I am extremely sorry for hijacking your thread, I have tried to stay away from the political threads for this very reason and was not expecting to see the type of comment Simon made when I opened a thread expressing sympathy for the Spanish people. Again my apologies. PS Weren't politics supposed to be confined to one thread? Seemed like a good idea to me....
Let the USA go isolationist like before the 2nd world war -- then lets see what happens -
So give us a valid reason for the Iraq war, Pork Chop.
13 or was it 14 flagrant violations of UN/security council resolutions -- if they are not to be obeyed and enforced let us break up the UN for the useless organization it is -- if not and we wan the UN to succeed and be respected then we declare war when there have been x+1 violatuions - put up or shut up
